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 Post subject: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:31 pm 
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We im fed up with this car now...possibly the worst neon i have owned...im having heating issues now.

I have replaced the thermo stat about 3 months ago...the antifreez is green and clean with a reading of -40c. I have a block heater and no A/C n single fan small radiator. Car is a 98 Neon.

Problem is i leave the car warm up for 1hr and it blows slightly warm air...my in car plugin heater blows hotter air...this is causing my wipers to freeze up and not properly defrost the front window....where should i start? I live in Canada and the past week has been -35c and -42 with the wind...this problem isnt good at all and i gotta drive 2hrs a day for my commute...


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:47 pm 
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Put a working thermostat in it...

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:56 pm 
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any suggested brands? guess ill buy a new one next pay day...and start there...


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:17 pm 
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My first question is, Does the engine come up to normal operating temp.?
With the engine warmed up, the upper hose should be hot, which would indicate that the t-stat is open and there is flow of coolant. You should be able to feel it when the t-stat starts to open, the upper hose will start feeling warm, then when the t-stat opens fully, will suddenly get hotter.
After engine warmup, feel the heater hoses, one should be hot, the other should be warm. If one is hot, and the other is cold, the core may be clogged. If they are the way they should be, then you may have a problem with the doors in the hvac box, or the hvac box may be full of debris, blocking airflow. (you did not say whether or not you got full airflow from the blower.)
With regards to Rick's comment, the t-stat being stuck open is a possibility.
Also, make sure the system is burped, air pockets will cause problems.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:37 pm 
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MichNeon wrote:
My first question is, Does the engine come up to normal operating temp.?
Yes 1/2 way between hot and cold

With the engine warmed up, the upper hose should be hot, which would indicate that the t-stat is open and there is flow of coolant. You should be able to feel it when the t-stat starts to open, the upper hose will start feeling warm, then when the t-stat opens fully, will suddenly get hotter.
After engine warmup, feel the heater hoses, one should be hot, the other should be warm.
After 45 mins of driving i popped my hood and touched both upper and lower hoses they both were "war" i could hold them both and not get burned but they wernt cold just warm.(rad hoses) i did not try to grab my heater core hoses...ill try that tomorrow after my 1hr drive...

If one is hot, and the other is cold, the core may be clogged. If they are the way they should be, then you may have a problem with the doors in the hvac box, or the hvac box may be full of debris, blocking airflow. (you did not say whether or not you got full airflow from the blower.)
as far as air flow i get alot of air like ALOT of air blowing through...so its not a problem with air flow just with the temp of the air.

With regards to Rick's comment, the t-stat being stuck open is a possibility.
Also, make sure the system is burped, air pockets will cause problems.
what woudl be a good way to burp it? the rad and overflow are full.


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:38 pm 
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What i usually do is to run the engine for awhile with the rad. cap off, after the t-stat has opened, occasionally bringing the rpms up to between 2000-3000.
I'll also run it like that with the cap on, helps to push any air pockets thru.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:19 pm 
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I;m not as smart as the other people who answered, I'm still learning, but ...
1. Why was the t-stat changed three months ago, did it solved the problem? Did you have heat before that?
2. Who did the work? Was the gasket installed and the t-stat install correctly?

You can test the thermostat yourself. When you remove it, it should be completely closed. If it isn't you have a problem. Then you can put it in a pot of water and with a cooking thermometer bring the water to a boil. The t-stat should opened around 190-195F. Convert that to Celsius if you need to.


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am 
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well i was the one who did it and i believe it is in correctly...and it was put in because of the issue that there was no heat also...ill buy a new thermo next week and b 4 i put it in ill test it in a pot to make shur it works...but ill burp my car today see if that helps if not how hard is it to remove the heater hoses in the engine compartment? i might flush my heater core out with CLR next week also...


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:05 pm 
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The heater hoses are between the engine and the master cylinder, just look down in between the brake master and the air cleaner box. They attach to a pair of hardlines that wrap around the engine, under the intake manifold.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:13 pm 
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ok just got back from a 2hr trip...i put a cardboard winter front on the front of my car to help umm keep it warm....thinking maybe its not being able to keep warm..

On my cay the car started to over heat.(winter front overdoing its job)
So i cranked up the heat and blower to full thinking i would get some heat...but nothing...but the temp went down to normal.

When i got to my destination i popped the hood and touched the heater hoses...they were warm not burning hot same with BOTH rad hose both felt warm about the same temp...though wernt hot enough to not be able to hold...so im still with hardly no heat...could it be something to do with the heater setting knob cable?


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Probably a clogged heater core. One hose should be hot, the other warm. The engine is capable of getting hot, apparent by the overheating when the cardboard was in front of the radiator.

There are ways to try to flush the core, including power flush, and chemical methods. Sometimes these work, sometimes they do not.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=353627&p=2893813

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=379057

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:18 am 
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Either the t-stat is stuck open, or the antifreeze mix has too much antifreeze in it, overcooling it.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:37 am 
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What thermostat did you use?

If it was of those fancy shmancy "Failsafe" thermostats Autozone and others sell, then odds are it decided to fail open on you when it shouldn't have. I used one on my new rebuild and got to drive on one of the coldest days we've had yet with almost no heat because it decided my car must've overheated (even though it never did, trust me, I was keeping a VERY close eye on ALL of my gauges, including the oil pressure and vacuum gauges I installed.)

It is apparently VERY common for them do to this.

I think what happens is that by their design, if the car overheats for some reason it'll open wider than normal and there are clips that will then lock the valve open to keep coolant flowing, even if the thermostat then completely fails and wants to close.
However, it seems it will exhibit the same behavior if you simply have an air bubble in the coolant system, since the air can heat up more than the coolant, it can cause the thermostat to "see" higher temperatures than are actually present.

Did you check to make sure there is still the right amount of coolant in the system? Check it cold, and don't just go by how much is in the overflow tank, open up the pressure cap on the thermostat housing and take a look-see.

If the system is still full, and the thermostat is working correctly, then it is definitely something blocked in the heater circuit. Or, it could be your HVAC controls are fubar'd and aren't diverting air through the heater core for some reason.

Just triple check everything involved in the heater circuit, from coolant level to flow to air flow and control. Easy way to check if the heater core is flowing is to unhook it, then hook up a garden hose to it and see if you can get the water to flow out at a good rate. If it does, then the core is fine, if it doesn't, then you've found your problem. Much easier than trying to take the whole thing out.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:53 pm 
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well still nothing...i flushed the entire syste. removed both rad hoses and both heaer lines removed overflow and cleaned it out blew out all te hoses shoved a garden hose in the block and drained it out and poured a full bottle of CLR in the rad and heater core and let it sit for 1hr then flushed them both out and blew them out.....refilled and all hoses got kinda hot....still not insainly hot but hot...blew a lil heat for a few days but then nothing now cold as it was b 4....

going to replace the thermostat next pay day....it has a motorad thermostat in it now.

any other comments?


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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:09 pm 
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watch this video and try it out!!! david knows his stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Heater cores will sometimes "rot" on the inside over time. It's not unusual for them to look great on the outside but have a nice short direct path on the inside for the coolant to loop around away the normal flow path. This way the hoses are nice and toasty hot but the coolant is not actually going thru all the passages you want it to. I've had a Neon one do this and the original one in our '98 Ram. Temp gauge rises like normal, hoses get hot, very little actual warm air makes it into the vehicle. You can't really 100% diagnose this unless you cut it open after you take it out of the car/truck. There's often a dividing plate inside that splits it and that plate gets corroded and a hole forms in it.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:32 pm 
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From the heater core sticky http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=388401 No way you are cleaning this one. It is rotted like Jeff says.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:57 am 
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jimbo in MI wrote:
One hose should be hot, the other warm. The engine is capable of getting hot, apparent by the overheating when the cardboard was in front of the radiator.


QFT- Hoses should be HOT.
Dunno why they wouldn't be if engine is HOT.
I'd check hard lines for restriction

Adjust the cardboard so it's not 100% (commensurate with outdoor temp)
This is a very good practice in extreme cold- Cylinder wall wears every time it gets a 'gush' of frigid coolant.

Heater core 'rots' because oil in coolant- Above pictured was mine, before I had it it had broke head gasket.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:20 am 
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My Car's hard lines are both cold with my top radiator hose very hot
my car is blowing only cold air inside the cabin.
i just replaced water pump, Timing Belt, Thermostat (Failsafe), Water Inlet Pipe,Hoses + O Rings , Flushed whole coolant system then added 50/50 Coolant Mix.
Rewired Radiator Fan Lines + Added New 4 gauge Ground Wire From Passenger Fender Mount to Rear Of Block Attached to The Filter Box Mounting Post.
Car has a problem Code 21 ( 02 Sensor) With Engine Light Going On An Off
With Engine Temp Meter Up To Normal Without Overheating, The Cars Heater Is Cold.
I also Did a Minor AC Delete By Putting A Power steering Belt W/O AC , My Whole AC System and Lines are still In Car just bypassed the Pulley with shorter belt.
Also Just did a Fuel Rail Swap that has a Pressure Damper Attached, mines didnot have damper on rail, Both Fuel Rails Are Sohc my car is a 97 dodge neon 4 door EX Sohc.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:35 am 
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Try reversing the hoses at firewall - may break up the clog and send it downstream.

As test, you can remove return heater hose, pinch it shut and see how much coolant is actually going thru the heater core.

Remove radiator cap and see if there is water movement, you should be able to see small eddies of current.

Don't go past 50/50 mix - more coolant does not mean better cooling.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:47 am 
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Vitor wrote:
Try reversing the hoses at firewall - may break up the clog and send it downstream.

As test, you can remove return heater hose, pinch it shut and see how much coolant is actually going thru the heater core.

Remove radiator cap and see if there is water movement, you should be able to see small eddies of current.
Coolant Is Flowing With Cap Off

Don't go past 50/50 mix - more coolant does not mean better cooling.

I'll Try The Other Two Now...

Which one is the return line?

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:51 am 
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The one that goes into the water pump feed pipe.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Where is the heater control valve located on a 1997 Dodge Neon?

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:28 pm 
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heater core is full flow, heat is controlled via bypass duct which direct air towards heater core.

I'd also check that - flap may be broke or cable disconnected or broken.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:46 pm 
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hotrod wrote:
Where is the heater control valve located on a 1997 Dodge Neon?


Neons don't have one.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Vitor wrote:
heater core is full flow, heat is controlled via bypass duct which direct air towards heater core.

I'd also check that - flap may be broke or cable disconnected or broken.


where do i find the bypass duct ? or connector that may be disconnected?

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:04 pm 
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It's called blend door. Check HVAC control panels and follow cable that goes from the temperature control dial.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:15 pm 
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If the heater hoses are cold, with the engine warm, it cannot be a blend door, cable, or other problem. It is a coolant flow problem.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Vitor wrote:
It's called blend door. Check HVAC control panels and follow cable that goes from the temperature control dial.


i have no clue what a HVAC control panel/cable is nor where to locate it lol...

please clarify?

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:25 pm 
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jimbo in MI wrote:
If the heater hoses are cold, with the engine warm, it cannot be a blend door, cable, or other problem. It is a coolant flow problem.


like i stated before i removed the radiator cap, an the coolant is flowing, temps go up normally, also runs great no overheating issues lol

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:47 pm 
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above your radio - that is your control panel.

may need to remove dash top and bezel around airbag and center vents, remove center duct extension and then you have full access to hvac control panel and its inards.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:13 pm 
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hotrod wrote:
like i stated before i removed the radiator cap, an the coolant is flowing, temps go up normally, also runs great no overheating issues lol


hotrod wrote:
My Car's hard lines are both cold with my top radiator hose very hot


So are the heater hoses hot, or not. You just contradicted your own statement. Not hot = coolant flow problem. You can have flow at the radiator, but not at the heater core.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:57 pm 
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jimbo in MI wrote:
hotrod wrote:
like i stated before i removed the radiator cap, an the coolant is flowing, temps go up normally, also runs great no overheating issues lol


hotrod wrote:
My Car's hard lines are both cold with my top radiator hose very hot


So are the heater hoses hot, or not. You just contradicted your own statement. Not hot = coolant flow problem. You can have flow at the radiator, but not at the heater core.


no the hoses from heater core are both slightly warm i cant really tell but to me id say kinda still cold

but the top radiator hose is hella hot

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:25 pm 
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With a normally functioning system, the hose that feeds the heater core would be as hot as the upper radiator hose, and the return hose from the heater core will be somewhat cooler. You would not be able to hold your hand on the feed hose for long, as it would start to burn, but you would be able to hold the return hose for as long as you want, since most of the heat in the coolant has been extracted by the heater core. The heater core is basically a mini radiator. Now, if both hoses are cool/warm to the touch, then the coolant is not flowing thru those two lines. Most likely cause is a clogged heater core.
Here's another scenario, which was discussed in another thread recently; Both lines are hot, but you're not getting heat. That would be due to a failure w/in the heater core, that allows the coolant to bypass the core itself.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:50 pm 
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so then i need to get a new heater core, or flush it out?

do you think my new fail safe thermostat is locked open causing this?

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:11 am 
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Unplug both hoses and run water hose to it - see if it flows at all. Reverse the flow, see if that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:51 am 
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hotrod wrote:
so then i need to get a new heater core, or flush it out?

do you think my new fail safe thermostat is locked open causing this?


Try flushing the core first, if that fails, then you'll have to replace the core.

A locked open fail safe t-stat will not cause a heater only failure, it will cause the engine to run too cool, not get up to operating temp., and if the engine does get warm, it'll take a very long time. If the engine can't get up to operating temp., you won't get any heat.
Better to have a t-stat fail wide open than fully closed.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:17 am 
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Whitelite98 wrote:
ok just got back from a 2hr trip...i put a cardboard winter front on the front of my car to help umm keep it warm....thinking maybe its not being able to keep warm..

On my cay the car started to over heat.(winter front overdoing its job)
So i cranked up the heat and blower to full thinking i would get some heat...but nothing...but the temp went down to normal.

When i got to my destination i popped the hood and touched the heater hoses...they were warm not burning hot same with BOTH rad hose both felt warm about the same temp...though wernt hot enough to not be able to hold...so im still with hardly no heat...could it be something to do with the heater setting knob cable?
The engine cooling down tells the tale... Heater core is functioning and the coolant is circulating.

What you probably have is - the heater "doors" (air directors) are not moving inside of the heater box or the fan is not working. Find out why - broken / loose cable? Vacuum hose cracked / broken / fell off? Door stuck or fell off?

(Chances are that the fan is working - otherwise the coolant temp probably would not have dropped)

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:13 am 
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Fail safe therms are rarely a good idea, they seem to fail on the safe side tooo much. They have a reputation of failing with ouy a reason, which means the therm never closes. I would buy a normal therm and also follow all the info advised above.

If the core hoses never get hot on top(to hot to touch) and warm on other side(hot, but can hold onto) then you have a core problem, maybe clogged, maybe blocked.

I did CLR a cooling system reciently and it made everything better, but if you do CLR the system, make sure that you flush it out 2-3 times before putting real coolant in it again. Other wise, you may just cause a chemical reaction that makes it all worthless and maybe cause an engine failure.

But, if you do do a CLR cleaning, you may have other problems that you didnt not want to know about and will show up. I left my car sit witht the CLR in it for 2-3 days and it was a massive change. Heater started working, coolant started working, but it also cleaned out a plug/hole in the cooling system in the head that I did not want(created a head leak).

Be very careful, some fixes might just cause more problems.

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 Post subject: Re: hardly no heat...car nor overheating...why?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:44 pm 
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ok i think the issue im having is with my heater temp control door...the knob is acting weird. When i turn it to FULL hot it moves back about 1cm like u stretch sumthign out and it slowly goes back into the old spot. Imma look into this tomorrow but i have a quick question:
-if i remove the plastic center dash cover and follow the temp cable will i have acess to the "door" or will i still need to remove the dash compleatly?


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