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 Post subject: rear brakes wont bleed... UPDATE
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:56 pm 
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ok guys so i finally got some time to go out and install my two new rear calipers, pads, and rotors. everything went smooth for the install and the only thing left was to bleed the brakes. i had installed speed bleeders in the calipers so i opened the driver rear and pushed the pedal, 2 pumps and the pedal went firm. i checked the bleeder and no fluid was on it so i opened it up a bit more and tried to pump again, this time just a firm pedal. i closed the bleeder and tried the passenger rear but was met with a firm pedal with the bleeder open. i even disconnected the banjo bolt and let the driver line hang and tried to pump but i just had a frim pedal. i reconnected the line and lowered the car down and started it up. pedal acts normally and the front brakes work well just no rear brakes at all. my only thought is to buy new rear lines in the morning and see if that magically fixes the problem. car does have ABS and the light is on for an unknown reason. i can only assume since i recently bought the car the rear brake issue was pre-existing since the driver rear caliper piston was just about side ways which is the reason i was replacing rear brakes to begin with. if the new lines dont correct the problem what is my next course of action?

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Last edited by mcccop_04 on Fri May 25, 2012 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:39 pm 
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How about the proportioning valve(s) at the master cylinder ?

If any dust or grit got into the master cylinder, it would eventually migrate it's way over there.



- Nick

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:46 pm 
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I don't understand why you would start buying parts untill you know what the problem is.
If it were me I'd start by following the rear brake lines toward the front of the car, disconnecting at each componant connection untill I found where the fluid is stopped at.
I find it odd that neither rear brake is getting fluid since they are on different circuits. I think it goes left front & right rear on one circuit and right front & left rear on another. Which would mean to me that at least on rear should be getting fluid. It could be that the HCU for the anti-lock system is somehow blocking the rear lines.
In any case, I would not just start replacing parts hoping for magic to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:49 pm 
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NickKo wrote:
How about the proportioning valve(s) at the master cylinder ?
If any dust or grit got into the master cylinder, it would eventually migrate it's way over there.
- Nick


According to my FSM the proportioning valves are not at the master cylinder, or the HCU fo that matter, but are under the car in the rear.
But, yes, they should be checked as part of following the lines toward the front of the car.


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:04 pm 
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rear pads and rotors had to be done regardless as they were shot. i decided just to do complete calipers because they're cheap instead of rebuilding the messed up drivers rear. i dont see how i needlessly bought parts. the only reason i suggested replacing the flex lines is because in a few threads brought up through the search engine alpine and a few others have said the lines can collapse but look fine upon visual inspection thus stopping the flow of fluid. while i dont expect it will cure the problem on a car with 200k with original looking lines it probably cant hurt. my next thought was maybe the ABS module was screwed up somehow or porpotioning valves. brakes are a brand new thing for me as a backyard mechanic so i just wanted to see if somehow i missed something simple. ill follow the lines up and see if i find anything. thank you for the suggestion.

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:10 pm 
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DaveG55 wrote:
According to my FSM the proportioning valves are not at the master cylinder, or the HCU fo that matter, but are under the car in the rear.
But, yes, they should be checked as part of following the lines toward the front of the car.

Dave - Yes.
I was thinking of my own Neons, which all have Drum brakes.... Sorry.
Those have the proportioning valves at the master cylinder.


- Nick

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-1995 4-dr SOHC ATX= "Organ Donor"
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 52mm TB; Maddog STS
-1999 4-dr DOHC ATX= UDP, Kirk Intake
-2000 Ply.LX with MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; Magnaflow muffler

-1971 Ply.Scamp SL6cyl. (TRADED for '83 Ddg.Rampage)
-1968 Chry.300 w/440 V8 (sold)
"MoPar or No Car"


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Did you try spreading open the clamp on the flex line a little bit? They can rust and compress the line enough to pinch it off.

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Nope didnt try that yet, thanks for the suggestion

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96 Highline SOHC
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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:12 am 
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I didn't mean the parts you've already replaced, I would have done the same there. I meant just replacing the flex lines and hoping it magically fixed the problem. Not getting fluid to both rear lines could be so many different things that it's really time to start trouble shooting instead of throwing parts.
Sorry for any confusion there.

Checking that bracket that rusts is a good idea too, I tend to forget that since where I live, south of Atlanta, is far from the "rust belt".
One other thing to remember, Try real hard not to introduce air into the HCU of the ABS system. If that happens, or you have to replace it, then you'll have to take it someplace (dealer) that has a DRB scan tool to have it bled. Removing/replacing the ABS computer does not require that the system be bled.


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:24 pm 
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All is well Dave, im going to start tracing the lines back to the master cylinder. A friend of mine also said to to disconnect the flex line to see if fluid runs from the hard line if so it could indicate a flex line problem. Ill also tweak that bracket and see if thats causing any problems. I also forgot to mention i had initially retracted the caliper on the passenger rear before discovering the driver caliper problem. So it would appear fluid will flow up the passenger rear line just not down it.

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96 Highline SOHC
Exhaust, Boogers, AC Delete, EGR Delete, 16mm rear sway, Motor Mount Inserts, Mopar STS, Iceman


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Bleed screws rusted through?

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:20 pm 
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I'm having this same exact problem. I replaced my passenger side rear caliper, pads and rotors. I'm going to try un-compressing near the bracket, hopefully it works.

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Vitor, bleed screws are brand new speed bleeders but thank you for the suggestion. Im sure the front ones will be nice and rusty though :sad: maybe ill just replace those and have new calipers all around since i plan to autocross the car... just need a set of those offset tension rods :wink:

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96 Highline SOHC
Exhaust, Boogers, AC Delete, EGR Delete, 16mm rear sway, Motor Mount Inserts, Mopar STS, Iceman


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:14 pm 
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If you break loose hose at frame connection, do you get fluid there ?

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New Goodies available @ http://www.neongoodies.com Monster Airdam, EGR Kits, Swaybar Brackets, etc.

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http://motorsportsne.com/

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:09 pm 
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When you pulled the brake system apart, did you let the brake fluid drain from the lines, or let the master cylinder run dry? If that happens, and air gets into the ABS HCU, then you have to do a scantool bleed procedure, with the DRBIII. Once you get the fluid thru the HCU, (might have to do it several times) then you can do the regular bleeding procedure. The suggestion about the bracket that holds the flex line is a good one, i had that problem with my right front brake. It would pull to the left under moderate to hard braking, after i opened the bracket up a little, the pull stopped.

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:09 am 
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Master cylinder never ran dry but the line did lose a small amount of fluid when i removed the banjo bolt to remove the calipers...

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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed...
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:22 am 
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As long as the line did not drain enough to allow air into the HCU, you'll be fine. Just do your regular bleeding procedure, and keep an eye on the master, don't let it get too low during the process.
It might be the brackets that hold the flex lines, they may be pinching the line.

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1995 Sport Sedan (The Frog), 2.0L sohc/atx, Bone Stock Canadian model, Belvidere built 4/94, 200,275 miles (322,297 kms) as of 07-06-14. Given to my brother.
2004 R/T, all stock, 2.0L Magnum/mtx, Belvidere built 11/03, 156,933 miles as of 06-25-14, My current DD.
20+ years Chrysler Tech


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed... UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Well i installed brand new raybestos lines on both rears and now the lines are flowing great! Besides being dirty the old lines looked fine from the outside.

A funny thing is now the ABS light shut off after the new lines were installed. I dont see how there is a connection but illl take it for now until it lights up again.

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96 Highline SOHC
Exhaust, Boogers, AC Delete, EGR Delete, 16mm rear sway, Motor Mount Inserts, Mopar STS, Iceman


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 Post subject: Re: rear brakes wont bleed... UPDATE
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:26 am 
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mcccop_04 wrote:
Well i installed brand new raybestos lines on both rears and now the lines are flowing great! Besides being dirty the old lines looked fine from the outside.

A funny thing is now the ABS light shut off after the new lines were installed. I dont see how there is a connection but illl take it for now until it lights up again.


Well, it's probably due to a bad/corroded connection. You probably disconnected the abs wiring while doing the brake lines, and after reconnecting them, made a better connection. That happens more often than many people realize. Good to hear that you got it fixed. Good luck. :good:

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1995 Sport Sedan (The Frog), 2.0L sohc/atx, Bone Stock Canadian model, Belvidere built 4/94, 200,275 miles (322,297 kms) as of 07-06-14. Given to my brother.
2004 R/T, all stock, 2.0L Magnum/mtx, Belvidere built 11/03, 156,933 miles as of 06-25-14, My current DD.
20+ years Chrysler Tech


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