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 Post subject: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:11 am 
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My Dodge Neon is 2005, SE with 4 speeds automatic.

I need to test the torque converter lock-up clutch on my car by unplug the switch/connector from the solenoid.

I know it's behind the trans dipstick tube on a 3 speeds, but it's not there on a 4 speeds.
I don't even know if my car has a torque converter clutch, and a solenoid to control it.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:23 am 
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You cannot simply unplug the TCC on the 4-speed ATX. It is very different than the 3 speed ATX because the wiring is integrated into the connector for the shift solenoids instead of being separate. It will not be an easy thing to test.

Why do you need to test the TCC?

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:37 pm 
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Dang, thank you so much. I have been looking for that switch forever.

What happens with my car is it up shift really hard (not smooth at all).
It's like all the gears got stuck for half a second.

If you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJUQLG5kcIw
There is a sound at 0.25 seconds in the video. That is the sound it makes when it does that. There was a few times I heard the grinding noises also.

Like I said, it only does that when it changes to a higher gear (1 to 2, 2 to 3), and meet one of the condition below:
- It does that most often when I'm accelerating out of a sharp 90 degree left/right turn.
- Sometime when the car is down-shifting, and I stepped on the gas.
- Many times when I accelerate it hard (up to 3000 rpm).
- There was a few times when I stepped on the gas, the rpm went up so quick, the car shifted-up and did that. It's like I was accelerating the car really hard, but I did not.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:50 pm 
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I have changed trans fluid, and filter. The problem is still there.

Is there another way to test the torque converter lock-up clutch? Because I feel like it is causing the problem.

The plug on the trans solenoid has many pins. Do you think I can wire those pins up somehow, and leave the two pins that are sending signals to the tcc solenoid?


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:20 pm 
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You have a CEL displayed... get someone to plug in a OBD2 scanner and find out why that is being displayed.

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Absolutely none of those symptoms are because of a bad converter clutch. The converter clutch is only locked in 3rd gear and 4th gear under light loads and above about 40 MPH. It is inactive in the lower gears, while shifting, and when you are accelerating.\

You cannot easily disable the TCC on this transmission, nor would you want to do so.

What type fluid did you use when you changed it?
Codes?
The problem was there before, and it did not change when you changed fluid?
Motor mounts are OK? The engine doesn't rock back and forth excessively when you put it into D or R?

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:41 pm 
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I was afraid the clutch failed to disengage, causing the torque converter to locked up all the time.

If it's not the clutch, the next things I should check are the motor mounts? I have heard they can cause problems like that.
The engine doesn't rock back and forth excessively, but I will have to take a look at those motor mounts into further to confirm this. I will let you know.

I use the fluid type that is recommended in the manual book. It's Mopar ATF +3, or +4 from Oreilly store if I remember.

The problem was there before I changed the fluid. It happens much more often now.

The yellow Service Engine Soon (SES) light is on, but it's an EVAP code. Possibly, a loose gas cap.


Last edited by cheapez on Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Engine does not shake when idling. No vibration in the car.
I don't know if the engine rock back, and forth when I'm driving but it seem normal to me as I seat in the car.

Engine does rock back, and forth making the steering wheel vibrates when the AC clutch kicked in. I did over-charged the system but it's only a few psi (7-10 psi) higher that it should on the lower side. I released the pressure, and the engine stopped rocking back, and forth. The AC system is a little low on refrigerant to be honest, but if I put more refrigerant into it, the car will not has the power to speed up (it's so sluggish that I had to turned off the AC sometime), and the engine will shake when the AC clutch kicked in.

The other day when I shut off the engine, I heard a "pop" noise right after the engine shut off. I think the noise could be coming from the bad motor mounts, or the exhaust. I'm investigating on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Cragger wrote:
You have a CEL displayed... get someone to plug in a OBD2 scanner and find out why that is being displayed.


I do have the SES light on but it's only an Evap code. The car you see in this video is not my car.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:29 pm 
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cheapez wrote:
I was afraid the clutch failed to disengage, causing the torque converter to locked up all the time.

If it's not the clutch, the next things I should check are the motor mounts? I have heard they can cause problems like that.
The engine doesn't rock back and forth excessively, but I will have to take a look at those motor mounts into further to confirm this. I will let you know.

I use the fluid type that is recommended in the manual book. It's Mopar ATF +3, or +4 from Oreilly store if I remember.

The problem was there before I changed the fluid. It happens much more often now.

The yellow Service Engine Soon (SES) light is on, but it's an EVAP code. Possibly, a loose gas cap.


A TCC that is stuck on would cause shuddering at low speeds, and cause the engine to stall out when you stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:30 am 
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MichNeon wrote:
A TCC that is stuck on would cause shuddering at low speeds, and cause the engine to stall out when you stop.


Thanks. I have read that. I was just hoping for an easy fix.
I will check the motor mounts today.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:29 pm 
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I took a look at those motor mounts, and found out the rubber part of the upper torque strut is cracked. It allows the engine to lean back excessively when I put the car into reverse, and drive. So, the upper torque strut will need to be replace.

I guess I will have to replace the lower torque strut, and the two motor mounts too. I have been driving the car like that for a long time.

Hopefully after I replaced those motor mounts, the car will shift smooth again.

The engine will drop if I remove those mounts right? So I will need something to support the weights first.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:53 pm 
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cheapez wrote:
I took a look at those motor mounts, and found out the rubber part of the upper torque strut is cracked. It allows the engine to lean back excessively when I put the car into reverse, and drive. So, the upper torque strut will need to be replace.

I guess I will have to replace the lower torque strut, and the two motor mounts too. I have been driving the car like that for a long time.

Hopefully after I replaced those motor mounts, the car will shift smooth again.

The engine will drop if I remove those mounts right? So I will need something to support the weights first.


You don't have to worry about the engine dropping out of the car when you change the torque struts. The mounts themselves, yes.
The mounts that are on the frame rails carry the weight of the engine and trans. The torque struts are roll control only, like the FMM on the 1st gen. The torque struts do not carry any weight, but they must be aligned properly to keep engine vibrations to a minimum.

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1995 Sport Sedan (The Frog), 2.0L sohc/atx, Bone Stock Canadian model, Belvidere built 4/94, 200,275 miles (322,297 kms) as of 07-06-14. Given to my brother.
2004 R/T, all stock, 2.0L Magnum/mtx, Belvidere built 11/03, 156,933 miles as of 06-25-14, My current DD.
20+ years Chrysler Tech


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Thanks again.
I'm reading the instructions on how to replace those motor mounts.
I will have them replaced soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:36 pm 
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So I have replaced the upper, and lower torque struts today.
I didn't have the right tool to remove the motor mount through bolt, so I haven't replaced it. Also, I haven't replaced the transmission mount.
Difficulty, cost, and times are other factors that I chose not to replaced those two mounts.
I don't know how long the two new struts will last, but I'm very happy to tell you all that my car is fixed. It shifts smoother now. No more jerking, or anything like that.

I'm writing this report to help other people with their cars.

Thanks to the members for helped me fix my car.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:54 am 
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Replacing the center load bearing mount on the passenger side is far more difficult than the torque struts. You either have to remove the motor mount plate, like when doing the timing belt, or remove the trans mount, and slide the whole engine over to the other side. But IIRC, that method won't work with the ATX, as there isn't enough room?

If you are close to 100,000 miles, may as well change the timing components and water pump while you are that far in.

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:11 am 
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The car still jerk a little when I turn the car fast, but it feels much better now.
The engine idles rougher, and the steering wheel vibrates more.
I did adjust the torque struts before I tighten their bolts.

I think it's time to replace two motor mounts, and the water pump while I'm down there.

Anyone know what tool is use to remove the passenger side engine mount through bolt?
Its head is all round with no edges. A hole in the center that looks like a star.
Look pretty much like a screw.


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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:24 am 
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Torx.

Image

Remember to not remove that bolt until you support the engine. The engine will fall out if you remove that bolt first. Many people put a 2X4 board on a floor jack and lift by the oil pan. That is OK if you don't lift too far.

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 Post subject: Re: Where the torque converter lock-up switch is
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:51 am 
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Thanks Jimbo,
I only have floor jacks. I will put cement blocks, and woods under the engine to support it. Just in case.


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