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 Post subject: 2.4 PT cruiser engine swap
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:32 am 
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Neon Enthusiast

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Location: Ohio
My dad is a chrysler gold level technician and the other day he surprised me by bringing home a PT cruiser 2.4 for us to rebuild and eventually put in my 1996 DOHC. The engine is an 05, which from what i hear on this forums might be bad. Is there still a way we can get this engine to run in my car? I know about all of the other things I need for a normal 2.4 to work, but what needs to be bought to get an 05 to work? all of the 05 wiring harness and computer??? please any help would be extremely appreciated.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:41 am 
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Megasquirt is your best option. Then next is to wire in the ECU from the PT. You will also have to find an intake manifold that will work since the 2001 and up heads use a different flange. If your rebuilding the engine anyways just get a 2.4 from the junkyard that is 2002 or earlier so you can run the stock ECU.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:44 am 
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Neon Enthusiast

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I would have but we're strapped on money and plus this was the only 2.4 in this part of ohio we can even find. thanks for the info anyways and if anyone still has any more helpful information it would be great because we have to stick with the NGC

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2.0l DOHC, Mopar Performance Computer, 3.0 CAI, p&p intake manifold, ATX throttle body, Hedman header, Stage 1 Clutch, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Poly Bushings solid-adjustable bobble strut, Dynomax rear exhaust section, Koni yellows & sportline springs, ADR cypher wheels


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:21 am 
well if your strapped on money and thats the only motor you have your strapped..period.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:40 am 
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Neon Enthusiast

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what the leaf spring juice is that even supposed to mean? im strapped period? i was looking for advice here, not smart leaf spring juice remarks

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2.0l DOHC, Mopar Performance Computer, 3.0 CAI, p&p intake manifold, ATX throttle body, Hedman header, Stage 1 Clutch, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Poly Bushings solid-adjustable bobble strut, Dynomax rear exhaust section, Koni yellows & sportline springs, ADR cypher wheels


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:47 am 
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The '05 engine is not compatible with your '96 computer. They won't work together, it will not start or run at all. The '03-up crankshaft has a toothed pattern on it that is vastly different than the '96 crankshaft. You have a couple of options:
- get the computer from something like the '05 PT and wire it all in. You will need many of the engine sensors from the PT to make it work. It won't be very easy but has been done.
- have someone fab a trigger wheel that has the '96 crankshaft pattern on it and either bolt it onto the '05 crankshaft where the existing one is now or externally on the front of the crankshaft. Not easy but has been done a couple of times that I know of.
- buy and wire in a standalone engine computer like the MegaSquirt (cheap but very functional option). You'll need to learn how to program it, it does not come as a plug and play computer.

What else?

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12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap, not-so-much daily driver

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'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis Blue-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:49 am 
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n00b
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Location: western WI
This is the '03-up trigger wheel.

Image

Image

The pre-NGC trigger wheel pattern is machined into the crankshaft and has 7 notches that are staggered. See below.

Image




This is the reason why the NGC engines cannot be run by a non-NGC computer. You must change the trigger wheel pattern or run the computer that matches the crankshaft pattern. You can't simply swap cranks because the physical location of the trigger wheel and sensor in the blocks are in different places.

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12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap, not-so-much daily driver

http://www.boogerbushings.com

Image

'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis Blue-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed


Last edited by JeffB#2 on Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:51 am 
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Neon Enthusiast

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Location: Ohio
okay, very helpful so far thanks.
few points im still unsure about:

-can i use an SRT intake manifold?

-I already have the 05 computer and harness (along with all of the necessary sensors for the engine. with these things do I need to mess with the crankshaft trigger wheel?

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http://cardomain.com/ride/2285873
2.0l DOHC, Mopar Performance Computer, 3.0 CAI, p&p intake manifold, ATX throttle body, Hedman header, Stage 1 Clutch, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Poly Bushings solid-adjustable bobble strut, Dynomax rear exhaust section, Koni yellows & sportline springs, ADR cypher wheels


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:59 am 
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Location: western WI
BlackDOHCneon wrote:
okay, very helpful so far thanks.
few points im still unsure about:

-can i use an SRT intake manifold?


Turbo PT engine? Either way you could use one yes. You can also use a Neon intake manifold by simply drilling the new '05 bolt pattern into the Neon manifold. I have a Neon manifold on my newer head, took 5 minutes to drill the new holes.

Quote:
-I already have the 05 computer and harness (along with all of the necessary sensors for the engine. with these things do I need to mess with the crankshaft trigger wheel?


No, that wiring harness and computer is exactly what you need. You will have some work ahead of you to get it to work with your car. You'll want access to service manuals for both vehicles to start chasing and tracing wires.

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12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap, not-so-much daily driver

http://www.boogerbushings.com

Image

'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis Blue-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:06 am 
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Neon Enthusiast

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:56 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Ohio
its actually the 2.4 non-turbo. planning on boring pistons just slightly because the cylinders have low compression. I see that you also have an N/A 2.4......what sort of bolt ons do you use? I have my headers from my 2.0 DOHC and from what i hear they bolt up...what about my underdrive pulley?

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http://cardomain.com/ride/2285873
2.0l DOHC, Mopar Performance Computer, 3.0 CAI, p&p intake manifold, ATX throttle body, Hedman header, Stage 1 Clutch, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Poly Bushings solid-adjustable bobble strut, Dynomax rear exhaust section, Koni yellows & sportline springs, ADR cypher wheels


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:19 am 
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n00b
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Location: western WI
Unless you have the SRT intake there's no huge reason to go out and buy one. Easier and cheaper to use the Neon intake. You'll need to bend the dipstick tube so that it clears. The knock sensor will hit the center rib on the Neon intake, just cut the rib out with a hacksaw so that it clears.

The exhaust manifold bolt pattern is the same but the port shape is different. Take a look at both of them, you will see that the old shape is more oval and the new one is rectangular.

Your UDP will work fine.

My engine is vastly different than what you will likely do. 12.5:1 compression, very large Crane cams, etc. all parts work pretty well together with a lot of little stuff that no one sees. Not a street engine anymore.

_________________
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap, not-so-much daily driver

http://www.boogerbushings.com

Image

'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis Blue-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:29 pm 
BlackDOHCneon wrote:
what the leaf spring juice is that even supposed to mean? im strapped period? i was looking for advice here, not smart leaf spring juice remarks

tuff'n up buddy its the org. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:51 pm 
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Jeff covered the basics of why an NGC engine won't run on an SBECIII PCM, but the whole "how" of how to make it work in your '96 body, with an NGC PCM is huge. No one will be willing to step by step it for you. Even those who can do it, would forget/miss something trying to do it in a post.

If it is what you really intend to do, you have a LOT of reading. It's all here, in one place or another. Read as much as you can, start doing it, and when you run into problems, search out the answers. Or if you have a single complication, post here. But what you're asking to do is kind of a huge task, and probably as much work to type, and explain as it is to do.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:57 pm 
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Neon Enthusiast

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great. I mean my dad has worked at the chrysler dealership for over 12 years and has the highest level of certification you can get, he's pretty sure we can get this to run with what we've got now. we just may be splicing wiring harnesses for a while

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http://cardomain.com/ride/2285873
2.0l DOHC, Mopar Performance Computer, 3.0 CAI, p&p intake manifold, ATX throttle body, Hedman header, Stage 1 Clutch, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Poly Bushings solid-adjustable bobble strut, Dynomax rear exhaust section, Koni yellows & sportline springs, ADR cypher wheels


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:15 pm 
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http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=220258

That's dajokerx2's project log on and SRT-4 swap into a '95... it would be a good place to start reading.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:15 pm 
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dont forget the Skim modules!



i also find it hard to believe you're dad wasn't aware of the differences in SBEC to NGC if he has the highest level of chrysler certification.

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im not that dumb. i cant tell the difference between a inch pound and foot pound torque wrench.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:51 pm 
werd son! :lol:
just sell that motor and form the money you will get buy a SBEC and work away, it will be far less headache


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Neon Enthusiast

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i mean he knew the difference, he just wanted me to get on here and find out what if anything we needed to have for sure with the engine. I never said we had no idea which one was which. a 2.4 swap into a 1st gen neon isnt exactally something thats taught to you at the chrysler academy

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http://cardomain.com/ride/2285873
2.0l DOHC, Mopar Performance Computer, 3.0 CAI, p&p intake manifold, ATX throttle body, Hedman header, Stage 1 Clutch, Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, Poly Bushings solid-adjustable bobble strut, Dynomax rear exhaust section, Koni yellows & sportline springs, ADR cypher wheels


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:33 pm 
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superD wrote:
dont forget the Skim modules!



i also find it hard to believe you're dad wasn't aware of the differences in SBEC to NGC if he has the highest level of chrysler certification.


what do the two have to do with each other? BTW: why would you swap out a 95 cam for a 96 cam?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:13 am 
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berretta96 wrote:
superD wrote:
dont forget the Skim modules!



i also find it hard to believe you're dad wasn't aware of the differences in SBEC to NGC if he has the highest level of chrysler certification.


what do the two have to do with each other? BTW: why would you swap out a 95 cam for a 96 cam?


the skim modules? NGC PCM's need to see them so they know where they are, they dont allow swapping like 1st gen PCM's do. if you get a 100% brand new PCM it will ignore the fact that the skims are not present if it never see's them.


and the 95 got a 96 cam because i wanted to save the came for my once was turbo SOHC

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2008 BMW 335i. Kinda fast I guess.
1999 2.4L coupe now sitting.

jspata17 wrote:
im not that dumb. i cant tell the difference between a inch pound and foot pound torque wrench.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:36 pm 
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Neon Enthusiast
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I'll be going megasquirt with my srt motor swap but my swap will be going into my Rampage not a Neon. Here's a good boneyard hunter I found, you might find an earlier 2.4 locally.

http://car-part.com/

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