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 Post subject: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:24 pm 
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OK after frakking about with a buddies SRT-4 hubs and freaky axles I took his SRT-4 axle out and measured it. It's 21 inches long in a "relaxed" state, when stood on end.

Does anyone have the length of the stock Neon passenger axles? I figure that with THAT knowledge, we can set up a database (Sorry, I'm an Analyst by trade :grin: ) of what WORKS and what doesn't. And make it easier on everyone. Part numbers, make and model if you know it are a PLUS.

1. OEM 2005 SRT-4 Drivers side (equal length of course) is 21 inches, and TIGHT
2. Shadow Drivers side is O.K. though not much play and not so much negative camber available. No measurements at this time.

Feel free to chime in or ad comments. I'll add it to the top post so it's all easy to find. If we get enough to make it worthwhile I can create interactive forms, and even Access Databases and such.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:32 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:23 pm 
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Holy CRAP! That's good information!! I've never seen it before :good:

Can we take these numbers to the bank? How is compressed length measured?

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:00 pm 
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I'll be using GT-Cruiser equal-length Axles w/ second gen hubs in a first gen chassis. If you want measurements on how much play there is, or axle "relaxed" to "extended" lengths, or how much camber before binding, or whatever, I can do that for ya...

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Super D that is very helpful. I thought the passenger side equal length axles were like the Shelby dodge axles. Both sides identical. Both ends male.
As long as my car goes straight I'll stick with what I've got. I was thinking about changing to equal length. So I'd only have to carry one spare.
I wonder if we could adapt the Shelby Dodge center section?

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Quote:
I'll be using GT-Cruiser equal-length Axles w/ second gen hubs in a first gen chassis. If you want measurements on how much play there is, or axle "relaxed" to "extended" lengths, or how much camber before binding, or whatever, I can do that for ya...I'll be using GT-Cruiser equal-length Axles w/ second gen hubs in a first gen chassis. If you want measurements on how much play there is, or axle "relaxed" to "extended" lengths, or how much camber before binding, or whatever, I can do that for ya...

Heck yeah!

Max Camber amount with second gen versus my SRT-4 axle/hubs would be useful.
I'm using SRT-4 knuckles/hubs, a 2005 SRT-4 right axle and an unknown (ebay) left axle with GT cruiser intermediate shaft. With this setup I can get just about negative .2 degrees camber on each side. The knuckles have about ZERO camber posibilities without coilovers.

Can you measure several of the distances that the knuckle bolts are? I've never seen the second gen pieces, so this measurement could be useful. While I have the SRT-4 knuckle on the floor, Ill see about posting that information tonight.

I also have here a chrysler part P005037622AA. Fully compressed it's 20 and 7/8 inches by my slightly less than perfect measurements.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:00 am 
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Take a pic of the piece you want to measure and throw it in photobucket. Then use its Draw feature to show what you are referencing & I can do the same. Unfortunately it will almost certainly be different since we'll both do it slightly differenly, but with pics we can at least limit the difference...

I will be on custom Leda coilovers (from REKIII) and trying to tuck 225-50-16 tires on ACR rims. The camber plates will allow me to check endplay in the axle while it's on a hoist. Then I can tilt it in until it binds, back off until i can get the slightest amount of movement and take those camber angles...

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:35 am 
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Quote:
Take a pic of the piece you want to measure and throw it in photobucket. Then use its Draw feature to show what you are referencing & I can do the same. Unfortunately it will almost certainly be different since we'll both do it slightly differenly, but with pics we can at least limit the difference...

Good info! I'll noodle around with it. I also have AutoCAD, though I'm just learning how to use it. Between the two I should be able to manage.

BTW Are your axles OEM? If so, do you have the part numbers for your axles? That gives more iinformation, since mid-year changes are known to occur in Neons, PT Cruisers and SRT-4 Neons.

With 225/50/16 tires, depending on the wheel offset, you should be good. I run 225/45/16 with a 40mm offset and bent trailing arms. Its CLOSE, but no rubbing. I have space between the spring perch for a taller tire if I want.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:54 am 
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superD wrote:
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SuperD, that is Awesome. :smile:

I'm tempted to save or sticky this someplace.....

- Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:04 pm 
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mluckey wrote:
I also have AutoCAD, though I'm just learning how to use it. Between the two I should be able to manage.


Just save it in a format I can read, like the uber basic PAINT...

mluckey wrote:
BTW Are your axles OEM? If so, do you have the part numbers for your axles?


Yes

GT Cruiser Passenger P05286710AD
GT Cruiser Intermediate P05274912AC
^^^Both pulled from a wrecked GT, unknown build date
GT Cruiser Driver-side P05274711AF
^^^Purchased new from a dealer for $140 (which included 25% off)

mluckey wrote:
With 225/50/16 tires, depending on the wheel offset, you should be good. I run 225/45/16 with a 40mm offset and bent trailing arms. Its CLOSE, but no rubbing. I have space between the spring perch for a taller tire if I want.

Mark


I'm running SRT4 ACR Rims, which I believe are 40mm offset & I will also have the Vitor bent trailing arms. I chose that size for its much greater availability & DD MPG factor. At the track I will swap to 15X9 255width 22" tall Hoosiers. The larger set will be used for final height/fender clearance and the other will be along for the ride...

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:07 pm 
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Thanks for the new info! I'v got enough to start putting it all together. I hope others will chime in with good information.

Quote:
I'm running SRT4 ACR Rims, which I believe are 40mm offset

My memory says that they are 40mm...and SEXY on the first Gen. I'm running Koenig Heliums in 16 x7 40mm ET

I got the photos of the 2005 SRT-4 knuckle and axle and am working on measurements.

Next week I'll put all of this cool info into a more useable format than a thread. It's not going to happen this weekend because the Army still owns my free time once per month.

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:04 pm 
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what is the length of a 95 to 99 NEON passanger side axle shaft with an AUTOMATIC trans?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Quote:
what is the length of a 95 to 99 NEON passanger side axle shaft with an AUTOMATIC trans?
what is the length of a 95 to 99 NEON passanger side axle shaft with an AUTOMATIC trans?


Empi US says there are two different part numbers for axles, for 95-99 Neons with auto trans. The newest part 80-2011 shows to be 37 and 3/16ths of an inch, compressed length.

Later,

Mark

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16 PSI to redline
So much to break, so little time....


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:30 am 
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thanks, for the info and the Tip on the EMPI Cv shaft builders, nice web site!

the # 80-1944 for 1st gen neons is listed as 37 1/8 ,,only 1/16th less,,,,

Trying to figure our how to adpat the 10 mm thick 26 spline hub from a 2000/01 neon to the Passenger side of a 1st gen neon fro oval racing.

the a 2000/01 neon #80-2007 axle is 37 3/4 " long,,,,

Soo it seems move the RF lower control arm mounts out ( Fab & Weld, modify the cradle) about 3/4 of an inch ( this will give needed camber on the RF wheel) or get a local CV rebuilding shop to make a shorter shaft based on the a 2000/01 neon passenger side shaft.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:58 am 
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I'm using the 00-01 ATX pass. axle in my '99 with no mods, other than hub and bearing change in the spindle. I don't have, nor have I tried any super aggressive camber though. It may work fine still.

I now run a turbododge driver side axle though because the longer 2nd gen driver side was unuseable because of too much compression even with normal camber.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Thanks for the REAL world info,,,

""I'm using the 00-01 ATX pass. axle in my '99 with no mods, other than hub and bearing change in the spindle. I don't have, nor have I tried any super aggressive camber though. It may work fine still.

I now run a turbododge driver side axle though because the longer 2nd gen driver side was unuseable because of too much compression even with normal camber.
I'm using the 00-01 ATX pass. axle in my '99 with no mods, other than hub and bearing change in the spindle. I don't have, nor have I tried any super aggressive camber though. It may work fine still.

I now run a turbododge driver side axle though because the longer 2nd gen driver side was unuseable because of too much compression even with normal camber.""

this is for first Gen Neons for Oval racing,,,from time to time the ACR hub is not available,,so maybe going your way route would work too. just have to check if the extra oval track camber will totally colapse the CV shaft ( bind).


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:00 pm 
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If you don't know, the PT knuckles can use the 33mm bearing and thicker hub, or the 39mm bearings, so long as you match the deep hub with the 39mm bearings and the shallow one with the 33mm bearings. As a bonus you get to use the second gen axles. They're stronger than the first gen axles. With the 33mm bearings there's enough room for fairly aggressive camber while still leaving some compression room in the CV. I can get 1.7 negative camber with plenty to go. I'd wager that 2.0 is doable. Sometime this weekend I may have time to post max camber for 01 PT knuckles with 33mm bearings.

With SRT-4 knuckles/hubs and the 39mm bearings, maximum camber is around negative 1.0 degress give or take a tenth. I was able (with trimming on the upper tab to get -1.3 degrees. The issue was that the CV joint was TIGHT. It's the reason that I went over to the 01 PT knuckles

Mark

Edit: I wasn't clear here...what I meant to say is that the PT knuckles had two choices. 39mm and 33mm. The SRT-4 has 1 choice, the 39mm.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:59 am 
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Does anyone knows how much spline does the DSS stage 3 axles has on the wheel side ????

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:25 am 
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They require second gen hubs, so looking at the chart already listed, 26...

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:36 pm 
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ok tnx

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Good info,

I found the EMPI 80-2027 PT turbo passenger side axles on Amazon.com through RWI to be a decent price (79.98 dollars outright, including shipping). Advance Auto carried the Cardone version for more money PLUS core charge, so naturally, (being a Neon owner) I bought the cheaper ones, since the SRT-4 version is too long for my tastes.

Mark

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So much to break, so little time....


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:10 pm 
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Sweet, guess I know where to get spares now!
:good:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk axles and swaps!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:16 am 
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Got the PT Turbo axle in, and (with 01 PT hubs) I got just under -2.7 degrees camber with my setup. I settled for just under -1.7 degrees, which is about right with my wheel/tire/suspension setup. With the SRT-4 axle and SRT-4 hubs, I was limited to around -1.0 degrees of camber.

These EMPI axles are ISO certified, and the box I had, had a TUV number as well.

Inexpensive axles that only took 3.5 days from order time to my door. That's the same time as ship-to-store Autozone axles, and half the price! Makes us cheap Neon owners dance the happy dance. :grin:

Mark

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So much to break, so little time....


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