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 Post subject: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:04 am 
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will the front and back hubs from a caravan fit on my neon without a bunch of modification and if so will my axles fit the splines correctly ....... Or does any one know where I can find some wheels w/ 100mmx5 pattern with a two inch offset I.e. I want somw wheels that stick out 2'' farther than stock just some plain steel wheels

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:28 am 
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I have no idea what you are trying to acomplish.....

A neon wheel will have an offset between 40mm to 35mm. If you can find a zero offset wheel, that would move the tire and wheel between 1.575 to 1.380 inches outward.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:11 am 
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Thats exactly what I want and a few tire shops told me I wont find what im looking for with the neon bolt pattern also isnt there stock breaks for the caravan that are bigger than the neon by a decent amount ...... Im cheap and junk yard parts are cheaper

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:06 am 
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dustinicus wrote:
I want somw wheels that stick out 2'' farther than stock just some plain steel wheels




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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:42 pm 
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There's a thread to this degree going on over at ptcrew. The hub OD on the front at least is a larger diameter and no one has been able to find a hub the right size.

No one looked into rear yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:54 pm 
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why not just flip the wheel around? valve stem in.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:36 am 
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norman426 wrote:
why not just flip the wheel around? valve stem in.



UMMM, I think there is one or two slight flaws with your theory.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:43 am 
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dustinicus wrote:
will the front and back hubs from a caravan fit on my neon without a bunch of modification and if so will my axles fit the splines correctly ....... Or does any one know where I can find some wheels w/ 100mmx5 pattern with a two inch offset I.e. I want somw wheels that stick out 2'' farther than stock just some plain steel wheels


OK, first, your axle splines are wrong to do this swap (assuming you are first gen).

Second, take any object, like one of your shoes. Take said object and put it on your shoulder. See how long you can hold that shoe on your shoulder? Now hold your arm straight out and put that shoe on your fingertips. Now how long can you hold your arm straight out? Try it, I dare you. That is what it will do to your wheel bearings. The leverage will kill them in no time at all.

Please do not extend your wheels out 2". :sad: :puke:

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:51 am 
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I have specific idea in mind, a look I am trying too accomplish and maybe not exactly 2'' but I want my wheels to stick out some does any one know of some wider wheels, I dont want something.big with rubber bands or to put some big spacers on either, I would like for them to stick out some more what about the stock style steel wheels at tire stores dont they order those with.pre determined lug spacing

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:51 am 
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I'll feed you a wild idea.....

01-04 Stratus Track width is 60.2" thats about 3 inches wider than a Neon. It uses a front crossmember very similar to a neon. The rear crossmember is bolted in place and looks very similar to the one welded into the rear of a neon. Looks like both with fit very little fabrication.

Why dont you try and figure out if you can swap the entire front and rear suspension from the Stratus to the Neon? If you can do it successfully, it will be unique, wider than stock, have bigger brakes than stock, handle better than stock and still look like stock because you would be using all OEM components.



Let see what this can of worms turns into by Monday when I check back.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:17 am 
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gyrol wrote:
I'll feed you a wild idea.....

01-04 Stratus Track width is 60.2" thats about 3 inches wider than a Neon. It uses a front crossmember very similar to a neon. The rear crossmember is bolted in place and looks very similar to the one welded into the rear of a neon. Looks like both with fit very little fabrication.

Why dont you try and figure out if you can swap the entire front and rear suspension from the Stratus to the Neon? If you can do it successfully, it will be unique, wider than stock, have bigger brakes than stock, handle better than stock and still look like stock because you would be using all OEM components.



Let see what this can of worms turns into by Monday when I check back.


I hate to burst your bubble, but it would be easier to fabricate a whole new suspension. The stratus uses upper and lower control arms, like a Honda. (Double wishbone) I am not sure how, or where you would attach all these extra parts. Besides if the track width is wider think about where the struts, springs, and other parts will end up- dead even with the outer fender skin. That would be a great look, suspension parts sticking through the fenders.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:30 am 
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dustinicus wrote:
I have specific idea in mind, a look I am trying too accomplish and maybe not exactly 2'' but I want my wheels to stick out some does any one know of some wider wheels, I dont want something.big with rubber bands or to put some big spacers on either, I would like for them to stick out some more what about the stock style steel wheels at tire stores dont they order those with.pre determined lug spacing


Again, if you offset the wheels much past stock you WILL kill the wheel bearings, among other things. You will also introduce some unusual handling characteristics. Google SCRUB RADIUS for a start. Here is a link to start you out.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_radius You would be changing from a negative scrub radius to a positive scrub radius. Here is a short example of what can happen:

Quote:
An advantage of a negative scrub radius is that the geometry naturally compensates for split mu braking, or failure in one of the brake circuits. It also provides center point steering in the event of a tire deflation, which provides greater stability and steering control in this emergency situation

A positive scrub radius will increase steering effort, torque steer and kickback on bumps to a considerable degree. At the same time, a blowout or a failure of one front brake could yank the wheel hard enough to pull it out of your hands.


Please think about why virtually nobody does this.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:59 am 
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jimbo in MI wrote:
The stratus uses upper and lower control arms....I am not sure how, or where you would attach all these extra parts


Front upper short arm bolts to a cradle that bolts to the strut tower and acts like top strut mount. Lower front long arm bolts to the crossmember in similar fashion to whats seen in a neon.

Rear crossmember holds both upper rear arm and lower lateral links.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:07 am 
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Thank you all for your input part of what I was trying to.accomplish was filling in some empty space left by some mild fender flares. Once I get my computer up again ill take some pics of what im doing and start a project.log but doing this on my phone is really annoying

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:20 pm 
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I plan on running a set of Enkei RPF1s in 17x10 for MiniMe when I get more into track days and want to beat on the Porsche club members. I bought a set of adapters that REKIII sold a while ago and work very well. Not only will they convert the bolt pattern, but the extra offset will make a RWD rim setup transfer over easily. The trick is to have a thick enough spacer that you can have the stock studs TQ it down and then attach the wheel to lugs that are pressed in from the backside of the spacer...

I'd take a pic of mine, but my camera was in my car overnight and the lens is fogged over. Here's the Dimensions though:
ID 66mm (2.6")
OD 150mm (5.9")
Thickness 38mm (1.5")

Then you of course have the lug patterns overlayed on eachother. The stock lugs will TQ down within the spacer, using only the last 1/2" (with a 60 degree taper) to do the actual clamping. The studs that I have pressed into the spacer are flush with the back, but extending them an additional 1/2" should be pretty easy...

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:30 pm 
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SRTMiniMe wrote:
I plan on running a set of Enkei RPF1s in 17x10 for MiniMe when I get more into track days and want to beat on the Porsche club members. I bought a set of adapters that REKIII sold a while ago and work very well. Not only will they convert the bolt pattern, but the extra offset will make a RWD rim setup transfer over easily. The trick is to have a thick enough spacer that you can have the stock studs TQ it down and then attach the wheel to lugs that are pressed in from the backside of the spacer...

I'd take a pic of mine, but my camera was in my car overnight and the lens is fogged over. Here's the Dimensions though:
ID 66mm (2.6")
OD 150mm (5.9")
Thickness 38mm (1.5")

Then you of course have the lug patterns overlayed on eachother. The stock lugs will TQ down within the spacer, using only the last 1/2" (with a 60 degree taper) to do the actual
clamping. The studs that I have pressed into the spacer are flush with the back, but extending them an additional 1/2" should be pretty easy...


Is the adpater your using like these sold on eBay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-x-100m ... 1805wt_807

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:03 pm 
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They look almost the exact same, except I know mine were custom machined out of 6061 Aircraft grade aluminum, so they're a bit more expensive. If you go the ebay route I woudn't trust the studs/lugs they supply considering stock SRT hardware tends to fail in racing environments. I've personally witnessed one SRT lose a wheel autocrossing and two other SRT enthusiasts in my region had similar problems at other locations. ARP studs are cheap enough and Dorman lugs can be had from Rockauto for fairly cheap as well...

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:11 pm 
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I remember reading someone using Caravan hubs. They had to machine them down for the neon bearing to fit but it worked. You have to upgrade the pt/shadow axles also because the splines are bigger on the Caravan hubs. I actually thought about doing this just so I could run the Caravan Sport or Intrepid R/T wheels that look like the 1st gen R/T wheels but are either 16" or 17".

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:21 pm 
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neonrt_98 wrote:
I remember reading someone using Caravan hubs. They had to machine them down for the neon bearing to fit but it worked. You have to upgrade the pt/shadow axles also because the splines are bigger on the Caravan hubs. I actually thought about doing this just so I could run the Caravan Sport or Intrepid R/T wheels that look like the 1st gen R/T wheels but are either 16" or 17".


I believe the hubs you speak of are what is called the 14" wheel Caravan, they are almost a direct interchange with our cars. These have the small 5x100mm pattern like Neons.

The larger bolt pattern uses a very different size and style of hubs. I very highly doubt they could be used in any form on a Neon. These are off an early Caravan, the later are similar.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm 
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jimbo in MI wrote:
neonrt_98 wrote:
I remember reading someone using Caravan hubs. They had to machine them down for the neon bearing to fit but it worked. You have to upgrade the pt/shadow axles also because the splines are bigger on the Caravan hubs. I actually thought about doing this just so I could run the Caravan Sport or Intrepid R/T wheels that look like the 1st gen R/T wheels but are either 16" or 17".


I believe the hubs you speak of are what is called the 14" wheel Caravan, they are almost a direct interchange with our cars. These have the small 5x100mm pattern like Neons.

The larger bolt pattern uses a very different size and style of hubs. I very highly doubt they could be used in any form on a Neon. These are off an early Caravan, the later are similar.

Image

That's the bearing and hub assembly. You just want the hub without the bearing assembly.

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:27 am 
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If you are doing all of this why not just run 91-94 car spindles with the 5x114 caravan hubs?? Then everything just bolts on if you use the kcar axles.

The caravan spindle will also work but it has a different tie rod position that reduces you turning radius so it isn't good.

If you use the following combos things should work:

91-94 Daytona/Spirit/Lebaron/Shadow spindle
91-94 Caravan 15" wheel hub
Daytona/Spirit/Lebaron/Shadow Axles.

The bolt in caravan hubs are compatible with the car spindles. The only difference is the bolt pattern.

Then you can decide if you want the 11" front brakes with 60mm calipers or not. If you get the caliper brackets from the caravan and the rotors it is a full 11" brake system.

Then check my webiste because I bought all of the remaining hawk brake pads for the 11" brakes when they discontinued them... I offer them at half MSRP...

Don't worry I have hundreds of sets so we won't run out any time soon.

Or you could also use the 10" brakes and pads from the car if you don't want to upgrade.

-Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:20 am 
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i thought some one said that the neon axles wont fit into the older "k" car hubs.... but if they do that would be cool... i like the project that jimbo is doing, good work btw.... it kinda made me think of doing something similar since some else did all of the research.... my idea is more of an older "k" car with something like this.... anyway im getting off subject, i did see a shadow with zero offset wheels which after looking at it is what i actually wanted i guess... i dont know much about the specifics of how offset is measured, i just had some older wheels on a pickup that when i "hung" them on the neon hub (while i was replacing a wheel bearing) looked pretty cool so i was using that as my means of measurement... anyway rambling again, does anyone know of a place i could find some regular steel wheels w/ a zero offset 14" and 5x100mm bolt pattern, ive searched and called some places locally and they all say they could help me with the 5x4.5" but not the stock pattern... thats why i was asking about caravan hubs in the first place...

thanks
Dustin

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 Post subject: Re: Bolt patern change 4.5by5 ..... Caravan?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:40 am 
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Diamond Racing wheels can custom make any steelies to your specs, prices are the best around but with shipping your looking at 300-400 depending on what you want.

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