www.neons.org

I'm sure he explored all options. He has since worked on other big boost SRT setups and has found the same issue. All of the 700+ guys are using individual coils.

Update:

I purchased a Howe 82870 hydraulic TOB setup, which is what Nemo uses on his kit. Unfortunately it appears that it only fits the T850 trans; the T350 is not as deep. Drew and I determined this after spending Tuesday night pulling the tranny out of the car and taking some measurements..

So back to Summit the Howe went yesterday. I've found a Tilton HTOB that looks like it will work. I'm hoping to find a discount online vendor that can hook me up.

I'm waiting on a hot price on the AEM pencil coils and their CDI box. As soon as that comes through if the price is right I'll get those on order. Look for my DIS-2 price to drop once I have the new box ready to go!

Update on the dad / heart situation.. I've been at the hospital with family all day, and brought the laptop to pass the time. His surgery went great, they ended up doing 5 bypasses, plus a valve repair and the maze procedure. He's in the ICU still, with a ton of equipment hooked up to him, but they think they'll have the ventilator out in the next half hour or so. Thanks for all the kind words from everyone!

good to hear matt.

its amazing what they can do nowadays.

outstanding!!!!!

Great News.

Drew

AEM parts on their way (CDI box & pencil coils), and Tilton HTOB is on order. Long lead time though - 4-6 weeks. I plan to hit the dyno again and tune for power once the new parts are installed. Hopefully all that happens in time to make the IFO race in October.

Monday has set the bar; I have some catching up to do already!!

atleast the bar isnt very high it would be awesome if you came to the indy race though!

Glad everything went good with your father. Hope the rest of it goes just aswell.



Hope you get all your parts and get it to the track again with dyno numbers.

Monday has set the Bar and we both have some catching up. My car is up at the shop right now having some tig welding done (shhhh, 2-44mm wastegates, and a 4" dp) so I hope to be out finally next week.

It's great to have someone pushing you. Both benefit!

Make no mistake Carl - I'm coming after you too!

I just want to get the black coupe trophy first.

Just kidding, of course - we're all in this together. Down with Honda!!

Update 9/13.. Received the HTOB and the new AEM ignition parts.


^^ Here's the new HTOB with some nice braided stainless -3 lines from Darrin at Detroit Flexible (http://www.hosenow.com). I'm going to switch back to this cable style bellhousing because the position of the fittings / lines work better than they would on the 2nd gen (hydro) bellhousing IMO. I ordered a bushing from McMaster-Carr with a 1.5" OD, 1-3/16" ID to center the HTOB on the input shaft snout. I need to create a way to prevent the bearing from being able to rotate on the shaft, but I don't want to take up any more depth. According to my measurements, the fingers on the clutch are 2.75" from the mounting surface of the block. The depth of the bellhousing is 4.40" from the mounting surface. This leaves 1.65" for the HTOB. The bearing is 1.44" tall, so the gap is .21", which is right in the range that Tilton recommends (.17 to .23)".

Still waiting on the new Tilton 3/4" master cylinder, so I can make a new under-dash bracket for it. I ordered / received a couple styles of 5/16-24 threaded rod ends from McMaster that will thread onto the actuator rod on the Tilton MC. The plan is to choose one that can be modified to also fit over the stud on the clutch pedal. Hopefully the threaded adjustability should allow me to set the pedal position so that the bottom switch / hard stop is where it needs to be for a pedal stop. Don't want to overstroke & wreck the HTOB!


AEM CDI box / Pencil Coil installation:







Nothing special here. The box fits nicely in the cowl (man is it DIRTY in there ), and the coils fit right in the valvecover. I ordered the "short" coils (AEM 30-2850) and they fit snug, but that should eliminate the need for any hold-downs.

Should have it together in another week or so, and then ready for a Test-N-Tune, then a dyno appointment, then IFO in Indy.

woot!!

Pencils look sweet, im assuming the new Tilton HTOB is a "LIL" smaller then the other one.

Drew

Good luck chasing Steve down for that trophy. He ran a flat 10 recently and still isn't even close to maxing out that turbo (he's only running 26 PSI). The only thing holding him back is his chassis certification for 9's, and then the boost goes UP. I'd to see 2 black coupes in the 9s.

Btw, that manifold looks awsome, as does the COP set-up. How much did those run you?

Best of all, glad to hear your father is doing ok.

I got the AEM & Tilton parts through Jegs.. I registered my NHRA license number with them, and get a pretty significant discount now. The box & coils were $485 together.

Anyone know how much stroke a Clutchmasters FX600 or FX700 needs to disengage? The contact ring diameter is 44mm (same as their TOB). I'm having a hard time finding this information. I'll have about 0.3" of stroke on the clutch given the clearances that Tilton recommends. If it needs more than that, I'll shim the HTOB a little. I'd rather know that now before I put it all back together.

looks good man im very exiced to hear how the TOB works out keep us updated i might be folowing your lead here.

This setup looks so cool. I'd love to see a video on how it works. Are there any on the web that would show this? I'm just having a hard time visualizing it... I'm still an old cable clutch driver, LOL

Car looks great Matt!

Think of it as a hollow hydraulic piston. When you push the clutch pedal, the master cylinder pushes fluid into this piston and makes it extend. The face of it that makes contact with the clutch diaphragm is the same contact circle as a normal throw-out bearing (TOB).

The extra braided line coming off the unit, connects to a bleeder fitting. This makes it possible to bleed the system outside of the bellhousing. That was the PITA about the stock parts I was using before - no way to bleed the air out. This also removes some mechanical slop since the clutch fork goes away.

Matt, so glad that your Dads outlook looks great. That MAZE thing is WILD. My Dad had a bypass years ago and then about 10 years ago he had a valve replaced. Never needed the MAZE.

PS: Your car is amazing!! Would love to see some of the ultra fast neons in person
S

Perfect!

Yes, very cool! Glad to see people are still innovating.
These type of TOB's have been around for a long time. IIRC, early 90's Ford PU's had them.
Dunno why Neon didn't ... $?

Please let us know your evaluation of the coils when you get them working. Is the Box CDI?
IOW, do you need the box or will the VB's/whatever is in MS now fire them?
Both coils fire at the same time (wasted spark)?
Thanks for posting all the details so far

Here's another look at a hydraulic throw out bearing. This one is for my car and I'm putting it in a 2nd gen bellhousing so the lines are routed out the bottom. I'm building mine similar to Matt's car. I just got the AEM pencil coils and AEM 4 channel ignition box too.

Okay, Len what kind of HTOB are you using? I like the way that one is designed more then the way Matts is. I know with Matts first one we figred it was a joke, then the new Tilton in my opinion and size wise is alot better. But i like how yours has the eyelets in it, which im assuming are for securing the HTOB? and the way the lines run out of the 2gn bellhousing is really nice.

Need input on the pencils as well for my upcoming project.

Drew

I believe Matt and I have the exact same Tilton bearing, based on the measurements he listed. His HTOB has the same mounting holes that mine has. I bought mine used and didn't even know it was a Tilton at 1st. I was told by Terry that the 2nd gen bellhousing was stronger. It looks like it has better structural webbing inside, and no big hole on the top. I'm making a billet bracket and spacer to mount it using a couple of the bosses cast into the bellhousing. Maybe I could make extra, if its not too difficult. I plan to run steel brake line from the master cylinder to the trans, and then flex line into the bellhousing.

I'm gonna use the AEM coils mostly to get increased spark, and to keep the heat away from the coils. My turbo would be sitting real close to the stock coil pack. I'm still gonna use them as a wasted spark setup with megasquirt, until a full sequential ignition is developed. I don't have a lot of confidence that the stock coil pack will have enough spark energy for running lots of boost.

Ooh, Len - where'd you find that boot? You chose better fittings than I did - but yeah, looks like the same HTOB. The spacing is correct without a shim under the HTOB, which makes it tougher to make a mounting plate to pick up the two mounting ears.

2nd Gen bellhousing is stronger, eh? Well, guess I'll head back to the fitting store and exchange my junk for some banjo fittings.

That doesn't look much different than late 1st gen neon bellhousings. I had a 95 mtx tranny and it was practically void of any ribs in the belhousing area.

Here's a 98 mtx:

http://dope.dhs.org/car_stuff/3.94-178K ... 009998.JPG

The boot came with the bellhousing courtesy of Jeff Ball. Couldn't you get one from the dealer? I must have more clearance than you do, because I can fit a good sized mounting bracket in there.

I'm gonna try and be at Matt's house tonight, Drew! Depends on how long it takes me to drive to Detroit.

Looks good! The AEM pencil coil's look good to!

Only a few hours nothing too horrible :P

Damn Len, my House is the Halfway point between You and Matt right off 94 in Kalamazooooo.


Drew

Update 10/1 - finished my bracket and installed the new clutch master cylinder. The Wilwood unit was much bigger than the stock 2nd gen part I used before, so the old bracket I had made wasn't even close. If anyone wants a bracket for a stock 2nd gen master cylinder to fit a 1st gen clutch pedal, shoot me a PM! If you use all stock lines, and use a reasonable clutch, the stock parts would work just fine. My problems started when I switched to custom lines to add the flow control valve. If you use the stock lines with their quick-connect coupling, you'll never introduce air into the system, and it will work like stock.

Anyway... Pics.

^^ new bracket. Adjustment holes to allow me to move the master fore & aft should I need that later. I can also extend / retract the rod end on the cylinder, so I get a total of about 2" of adjustment. That should allow me to put the pedal where I want it, while achieving proper clutch movement.


^^ closeup of the adjustment holes. Note I made this bracket with a hacksaw, and a hand drill, and a bench grinder. Turned out pretty damn good if I do say so myself. I had the 2 parts welded together for $10 at Mayo.


^^ master cylinder attached to bracket.


^^ where it goes in the dash.


^^ another view.

My bellhousing is due back from the machine shop by Friday, so I can put the trans back in the car and be ready for the dyno next week sometime. If I get my new tranny built in time, I'll use that one. Depends if the parts get here in time.

Thanks for checking in!

pm sent.

I just finished reading your entire project log, let me say wow! Great job on everything! keep us updated!

That's a good idea for mounting the MC. For some reason I always pictured it outside the car next to the brake booster which would never work on my car. I don't know why I never thought to put it inside above the clutch pedal so all you have to do is run the lines out. Maybe I will have to revisit putting an SRT4 trans into the Shadow. Stellar job as always Matt. Keep it up.

DJ

Thanks guys..

Update 10/3 - I got the bellhousing back from the machine shop. Here's some pics:


^^ bracket mounting area machined flat. The 1/8" aluminum bracket is visible at the left. The shiny areas are where material was removed to make room for the bracket. We saved the CNC program so if anyone wants one like this shoot me a PM.


^^ Here's how the bracket fits. We attach to the bellhousing at 3 mounting points.


^^ Here's what it looks like fully installed.

So I have to clean away any machining chips, and plan to put the trans together and back in the car tomorrow. My BAMF trans project is delayed a little longer; I'll hopefully be running this one on the dyno in a week or so.

Excellent Matt, thats pretty much what i had in my head. Make sure you give those bolts some lock tite and the Tim Kish treatment so they dont back out.

Looking Good

Drew

looks great matt. nice work!

Minor setback, the passenger side axle outboard CV popped out of joint and I couldn't get it back in. This had happened last year too but I guess I lucked out then. Once I undid the boot and opened it up, I found that 2 out of the 6 chromoly ball bearings were out of their races and just sitting in the boot. I suppose I ran this axle with only 4/6 of its torque capacity when I had it together last year. Tonight I got it back together, but something is tweaked, because now it won't pivot. So I got to send it back to DSS for repair / rebuild. Hopefully they can turn it around in a couple days for me. I might have to skip the dyno, just do a little street testing and then go straight to IFO..

The rest of the car is going back together nicely.

Big thanks to CJ "Superneon13" Zang for his help in putting the trans back in the car on Sunday.

That sucks man.

But if you are running the DSS with the larger outboard splines you can use a 2GN axle to "get by" until you get your axle back....

The plate and the HTOB look great in there!! Nice work!