www.neons.org

I have to follow suit. This build is just amazing. I'm very impressed. Keep up the awesome work.

Meh... its ok I guess......



















Nice!

Nice work dude! i was trying a couple times to see any progress on the other site but it was down a while back. Glad to see new pics and progress
Did you get the big oil filter figured out?
Later

Things have been slow because of all my side jobs which sucks but it sure helps pay for things. Things usually slow down to almost a halt in February so I should be able to get back on the car soon. The engine is close to ready to go in. I'm just polishing some pieces so I can get a good picture of it on the stand. I also still need to make that filter spacer, oil drain for the turbo, brace for the header and mount for the WGA. Then I can bolt up the tranny to finish the "missing hole" part of the front mount and she is ready to go in. I've started putting some of the interior in and once the engine is in I will build the harness. I also need to finish the exhaust by adding in another magnaflow and plumbing in the 4" dump. So really not that much..........at least that's what I keep telling myself to keep up the motivation.

DJ

I received a request for dimensions on the windage tray I built so I made a model of it to get a drawing out.

***DISCLAIMER***This fit on my vehicle but in no way do I assure it will work on anything else. Use at your own risk. Please don't try to sue me if it doesn't work since I haven't even started my engine yet***DISCLAMER***

The only thing I forgot to add was I used sheet with 3/8" perforations. This is just a drawing of what I made for my engine which is a 2.4 from a stratus so be sure to take it with a grain of salt as you should with anything you get from the Internet. Make sure you take some rough dimensions of your engine or even make a cutout from card board to make sure it won't interfere with anything. Also notice that the front and rear mounting holes are not the same distance apart. The rear ones are closer together. I used 10x1.5x100mm socket head cap screws that screwed into the holes that the balance shafts used. I also needed to clearance the perforated sheet to clear the washers which isn't represented on the drawing. When flattened out the perforated sheet measures 14.5"x7.546" so that should give you a rough idea of what size you would need.


Here is a picture of the drawing but you can also go here ( http://www.mediafire.com/?fgncxr3ym2d ) to download a zipped e-file. Just unzip it and run the executable and it will let you look at the whole drawing as well as each individual piece by hitting the next button in the tool bar. You can also rotate and zoom in on the piece using the respective buttons in the toolbar. Hit home to take you back to the drawing. Hope this helps some one out.





***EDIT*** I forgot to mention that the perforated sheet is welded to the 2 L brackets. Please don't try to just bolt it all togther. I would think that is obvious but just incase. If you decide to just bolt it then please see the disclaimer above.***EDIT***


DJ

Things are still slow but it looks like the remote starters are letting up and I should have some more serious time available to put into things.

All the glass is in now with the rears tinted (except for the very back which I will get done once it is driving.) I have started putting some of the interior back in which included installing the tranny cables since it was originally an auto. I bought new carpet since my cat decided to *a#S!d^f* on my old one while it was in the basement >:( . Good excuse to get new stuff though. It was only $125 to my door and it was custom molded with all the jute padding too. I am pretty happy with it for the price.

The intake is almost all polished and I welded in a piece for the vacuum bungs and throttle cable mount. I should have the WGA bracket, WGA arm, oil filter spacer, exhaust brace and intake brace finished in the next couple weeks. All that is left after that is to build the turbo drain and the engine is ready to go in ;D Some times it feels like the day will never come. On the tranny side I need to change out the FD and install the OBX. I also need to figure out the "missing bolt" on the trans and what I am going to do with it. So if I am lucky I may have an engine in the car by the end of the month.

Currently I am looking at some 17" rims but am not sure what to get yet. Here are 4 choices I have kind of narrowed it down to. Sorry they're a little dark. It's hard to get a good pic on a north facing driveway in the middle of winter.

Enkei RS7 Bronze (These might be a little lighter in real life)




Enkei RS7 Gunmetal




Enkei Evo 5 Hyper Black




5Zigen FN01R-C Bronze (I think these are a little darker in real life)






Currently I am leaning towards the Evo 5s. I like the polished lip (go figure ) and I think the boxier style looks better with the Shadow body. I would like to go some where and see what the colors look like in real life though. Any one have any opinions??

DJ

I like the 5zigens myself, but the evo5's look good too.

dido, the evo5s would look awesome if they were a darker color, like black or paint matched to the car.

AWESOME LOG, this car really kicks ass......

Good luck with the project.

Any chance that you are going to bring this around N2k8?

Keep up the awesome work,
Dave

After much debating I purchased an OBX figuring I could do alot of fixing for the extra $750 a Quaiffe would cost me. I got TU to send it to a client in San Diego and was able to pick it up at the beginning of February when I was down there. Best way ever to avoid duties and customs. I also purchased the "upgraded" (they really aren't upgraded at all just replacement) bolts and upgraded washers (I believe these are in fact better quality). Here is the break down of the OBX for those interested.

The diff itself in it's poorly machined glory


After removing 9 allan head cap screws the ring gear side of the housing can be removed and this is what you get.




Passenger's side splined gear and worm gears removed


Passenger's side splined belville washer retainer removed


Belville retainer retainer (wasn't sure quite what to call it) removed


Belville washers removed


How the belville washers should be stacked


Driver's side splined belville washer retainer removed


Driver's side splined axle gear and worm gears removed


All the internal parts


Close up of the bolts. The ones with the flattened "shiny" threads were the ones that were over torqued. The OBX bolts are 12.9 8mmX1.25 bolts 45 mm long and can be replaced with 50mm bolts. I say it isn't an upgrade really because what you replace them with will also be 12.9 bolts. The extra thread will give threads a bit less force per thread I guess but still not really an upgrade. Only a replacement for over torqued bolts.


Here is the OBX belville on the left and new washer on the right. Notice the discoloration in the OBX washer. Could mean an inconsistency in the metal which is a bit disconcerning........may also just be wear though it hasn't been used yet.


While it was all apart I test fit the axle gears on the axles and everything slid on perfectly so I began reassembling it with the new washers and bolts. To line up the washers I used a deep socket (7/16 I believe) to hold them in place which worked great. I would recommend keeping it there until everything is torqued up to keep them from shifting.


Once it was together again I test fit the axles and the pass went in perfect but the drivers was a different story. Apart it came again and after a bit of fooling and looking I found that the spline in the driver's axle gear was broached off axis so when the belvilles put pressure on it causing the gear to be flat against the housing the spline bore would be crooked. Here are some pics of what I found.








I was prepared for pretty much everything I had heard about OBX but hadn't heard about a spline being broached improperly until this one and of course after when I started searching for solutions. There were no real solutions to be found on the web, only people who found it after they cratered their trannies. I'm not quite sure why a big red flag wasn't raised for these people when they had to use a hammer to get their axles in ???

I found that the axle would slip into the gear if there were no pressure on the gear but as soon as pressure was applied it would bind. Helical LSD have some inherent sloppiness to them which I think turned into my saving grace. I came to the conclusion that if I machined the gear face perpendicular to the spline bore that when pressure is applied everything will still be straight except the gear itself which will be a bit crooked. But with all the slop that is built into this type of diff there is still plenty of clearance on all the worm gears surrounding the axle gear so I don't think it will be a problem. I talked to Chris at TU about warranty and he said it was done through OBX (so don't expect him to warranty your diff if you bought one from him) so I emailed OBX with of course no response. No surprise there. So next week I will go ahead and reface the gear and hopefully it will all work out. I'll keep you updated.

DJ

I rebuilt my OBX last month or so and it looked just like yours. I just used a grinder and cleaned the splins and made them look like the front spline where they are angled to.
Good luck with the OBX, I think its a great product for the price


Also Do you have the part numbers for the ARP bedplate bolts?



Thanks
Tyson

So you have to buy 2 obx LSD's to make a good one.

I didn't want to grind the splines at all since I wanted as much engagement as possible. It is really what transfers the power from the tranny to the road. My pass side spline is broached correctly so I won't have to touch that at least.

For my main studs I used a 2.0l kit so it would be an ARP# 141-5801. They need to be backed out just a tad because they are a little shorter than the 2.4 bolts but there is still way more than enough thread engagement. Then you need to hold the stud with an allan key while you tighten the nut with an open ended wrench. Take note of where the allan hex is positioned before you torque them and then make sure it is in the same spot after the torque so you can be sure they weren't turning and all the torque is proper. I didn't have any problems with mine wanting to turn while torquing.



Well if the machining works then no and I don't currently see why it won't. I'm also banking on the hope that the gear is through hardened and not case hardened. If it is case and I break through they I guess I'll cross that hurdle then. I'm thinking it shouldn't take much more than 20 thou to get it right. At the same point if you don't have the same access to machining that I do then the OBX is definitely more of a risk. I knew the risks when I bought it and also knew what abilities and tool accessibility I had. So as it sits the $750 savings has so far been well worth it.

DJ

Finished a few more things. Engine isn't real far from going in which I definitely can't wait to see. I got the WGA bracket done and extended the actuator arm to reach. I made it from stainless to keep it strong and used the bolt holes from the EGR. I plugged the EGR an aluminum NPT plug.






I also built a 1/8" spacer for the oil filter and used an extra gasket so I could use a larger filter from a 5.0l mustang. I have to thank SpeedEuphoria for that idea since I probably would have just left it. This should give it alot more flow than the supposed restrictive SRT4 filter.








Today I finished polishing the intake so I decided to have a little photo shoot with the engine. I am very happy with how it is looking and how everything is turning out. Like I said I can't wait to get it in the car and see what the whole package will look like.













Till next time

DJ

HOLY BALLS THAT LOOKS PIMP!!!!! i really like the intake manifold and the turbo........cant wait to see this.....bring it to N2k7

Wow, What a great project, I'm quite impressed with it all to be honest!

Awesome pictures, with lots of detail.. One of the best logs I've seen on here to date.

All the best to you... Great looking motor BTW!

Great work! This car is going to be pretty slick when it's done! I love your work on the front bumper.

I finally finished off the front mount last night. I made it so the hole on the engine mated to a hole on the tranny making sure every ting is as secure as possible. For those who don't know I am using an A568 from a 1990 TD and all but one of the mounting holes from the newer 2.4l engine will line up. Many people just skip this hole and catch the holes on the tranny with their engine mount. I didn't like that and wanted to make sure the engine was attached securely at all points. As always here's some pics to tell the tale.

First I made the boss for the bolt to go through my front mount and welded that in.



Then I made a boss to weld into the transmission with a recess for the locating dowel.



I marked the tranny and cut a hole for the boss





And then welded it in.









And that's how she sits. Sorry for the sloppy welds on the outside. Sometimes cast can get a little dirty

Hope that helps someone in the future.

Also did up these pieces to mount my leveler to. Since every one knows there never seems to be any good convenient bolt holes to mount one too these plates really did the trick.



DJ

I'm liking it, good work, keep it up.

Looks like your spacer is 1/4" probably could use the stock bolts then? I went 1/2" and had to get little bit longer bolts to the pan.

Love the intake also as its deff different but should serve you well

Wow, nice build. I was thinking of dropping a 2.4 in my charger.

The only suggestion I have is to weld some thru pins in the intake manifold to keep it from ball balloning.

Thanks. The spacer itself is 1/8" but with the extra gasket it is close to 1/4". I might have been able to use the same bolts but I just grabbed some slightly longer ones from work.



According to the FEA I did on the manifold the maximum displacement at 30 psi is about .018" so I'm going to try it like it is first and see what happens. I don't know if that is going to fatigue the welds after continued use but we'll find out. If I did brace it I would do it externally though. I would rather have it look a little less pretty and still flow better inside.

DJ

At least your OBX Diff had splines on both sides. The one I bought from Tuning Depot (Ebay) didn't even have splines cut into it on the passenger side.

I loving the build. I was just looking at some pics of my old Lancer with a Turbo 2.2 I used to own and wondered what it could have been before the Neon scene. Keep up the great attention to detail!!

Is there no way OBX could send you a replacement Gear?

Perhaps if you took some pictures of the fine quality and workmanship they sent you, you might get a free-bee, or at least a free part shipping.

Might be worth a shot!

I've never heard of anyone successfully contacting OBX. I had to fight with the company I bought mine from for weeks (and Paypal and Ebay) until I finally got my money back.

That's what I did.............the biggest surprise is no response yet

Well one of our machinists gave me a hand today and we finished one face and it looks like it is going to work. I can hold the gear in tight and slide the axle in now which I couldn't do before so I think my OBX is saved

I'll post some pics tomorrow.

DJ

With the help of one of our machinists I was able to get my OBX gear machined and it seems to have fixed the problem. I pretty happy about this since it means I no longer have a $500 paper weight. With the gear faces now perpendicular to the crooked spline the axle slides in and out with ease when there is pressure on the gear which it didn't even come close to doing before. I still need to bolt it all together and try it again but I'm pretty confident it will be good. Like always, here's some pics of what I did.

First the gear was placed in some soft jaws with an axle stub in it.



Then we dialed in the stub so it was running true. It was hard to take up the play in the splines so we were able to get the stub within .010" of running true. Every time you tapped the gear it changed how the stub sat in the splines a bit so we figured it was a close as we were going to get.



Then we machined off about .016" to get the face true.





Here is the finished gear, not much to look at but it fits way better than the original form. Hope this helps someone in the future.



DJ

Yes, you've certainly helped me make up my mind about the OBX LSD!

With all the problems you've had, and the lack of support from OBX,

I won't be buying an OBX LSD that's for sure.

I wouldn't want to have the same, or worse issues then you've had.

I hope it works out for you though, especially after all the grief.

As I go along in this build I've been trying to fill in some of the information holes I have found on the internet while researching and trying to figure out what was involved in some procedures. Changing the final drive was one of those areas. Cliff Ramsells site kind of tells you what you need but doesn't give any real info on what is involved in disassembling an intermediate shaft or what things look like as it comes apart. So here is my pictorial of the disassembly.

For the final drive change you need the diff (just the ring gear if you are putting in an LSD) and intermediate shaft from the new final drive trans as well as the intermediate shaft gear set from the trans you are using. I'm calling it the intermediate shaft since that is always what I have heard it called. Some one can correct me if I am using the wrong name. Here it is out of the transmission.



Here is a pic of the 3 "special" tools I used. Nothing really special and possibly not completely proper but buying expensive specialized transmission tools isn't always an option. They are the bearing splitter, 2 bolt puller and external snap ring pliers.



First remove the snap ring on top of the bearing.



This is how I removed the top bearing. I may have been better to use a puller on the gear below the bearing and pulled both at once but this was my first time and I didn't have my FSM with me at the time so I used a bearing splitter and a puller. It worked fine for me but probably puts a bit more stress on the bearing. The top bearing has approximately a 2 7/8" dia. so I used a 3" splitter. I did have to cut some new bolts out of 1/2" ready rod so it would open wide enough but it worked pretty good.





Once the top bearing is off 4th gear will slide off exposing a snap ring on top of the 3-4 synchro.





After removing the snap ring the synchro will come off. On one shaft I was able to pull it off by had and on the other I had to GENTLY tap it to come off. I was the only real gear that gave me any trouble. The FSM suggests using a puller but I don't have a three jaw and found I was able to get away without one just fine. If you can get the sychro off as a single unit that is the best but good luck on the 3-4. If/when it comes apart it goes together like this. You can see the steel retainer ring that puts pressure on the three dogs. (don't know if that is the correct term but it's what I'm using) There is a similar ring on the bottom. Then the brass pieces fit in with the dogs in the slots and the outer gear slides over with the dogs going in the three larger gaps.





The gear underneath the 3-4 synchro will slide off exposing a split thrust washer. Just remove the outer solid ring and the two split pieces will come off. Then there is a small anti spin pin that should easily pull out with some needle nose pliers.









One more snap ring and the 1-2 synchro will slide off. This one is much easier to keep together so you don't have to mess with reassembly.



This is the last piece and you should have these parts on your bench. The complete gear set..



And the shaft with the final drive...



Once you do the same to the other intermediate shaft you will have a bench that looks like this.



Now take the gear set from the trans you will be using (in my case an A568) and put them onto the new final drive shaft in the reverse order (for me an A523 3.77 FD). As always I hope that sheds some light for some one.

As a little side note I also got my rims and tires in. I went with the 17" Enkei Evo 5 rims with 215/45ZR17 Falken FK-452 tires. I think they look great on the car and really suit it. Now to get some weight in the front to drop that sucker. I should have the trans together this week which means I can now count on one hand the things left to do before the engine can go in.



DJ

looking good.
I cant wait to hear this thing run


When do you plan on having it run?

Same wheels I have on my car... Looking good man!

Thanks and thanks. My current goal is to have it on the road by the end of May. They don't usually get the sweepers out until then any way plus it doesn't have a heater so the spring mornings could get a little chilly.

DJ

You know my OBX is just like that(pass axle would go in fine if the OBX wasn't bolted together tightly, but not if torqued), as others I'm sure. A couple people hone the hole where the shaft slides in. I guess it would let it sit crooked to engage the gear. You sir have found the true cause!. I messed with mine for a little while(trying lube and rotating the splines hoping the stars would align, lol) then said screw it and pounded the axle in. I just hope I can get the axle out if/when needed(wish me luck). If when/if i get it out I will deff fix the problem if its not already hosed.

that shadow is gunna be sick post more pics when you get it all together and of course while making progress

Well I've actually been up to some work lately. I finished all the braces, the oil drain and everything else I needed to get the engine in the car. On that note guess what I did today!?!?!? That's right, after 1 year and three weeks I finally got the engine in it's final resting place. Here's some pics and some right up as always.

For the oil drain I wasn't sure what size to use but I figured Holset put a 3/4" hole in the turbo for a reason so I made sure there was no restriction smaller than 3/4" in my drain. Unfortunately that meant I had to go with -16 which my gut told me was over kill but I guess it's better to be on the safe side. Of course right when I got it done MachIIIRayzer posted on TD.com that the minimum size recomended by holset is 1/2". O well, you win some you lose some but I will know for sure if my turbo starts smoking it isn't because the drain is too small. For the oil pan I took a -16 aluminum fitting and welded it in. This enabled me to get it as high as possible in the pan. It also helped with the tight clearance in that area when you are trying to fit a -16 fitting in.



The outside isn't welded completely around but I figured I would hit it where I could for some extra stregth.



For the turbo side I took a few -16 90s we had kicking around work and made a piece to snake around the header. It was definately a tight fit but it worked. I kind of screwed myself with the turbo placement on this one so I was just happy to get something workable out of the drain. It was a big reason for me leaving it right to the end since I didn't quite know how to tackle it.



All in all it turned out good and at least it looks sexy



For the intake and especially the exhaust I was uncomfortable with how much weight was hanging out on them so I made some braces with some rod ends and threaded pieces and then fabbed up some brackets to attatch them to the block.





I also had to line up the cams and get the timing belt on properly so I made this sophisticated tool to help keep the holes on top of the cams lined up.



Once that was all done it was ready to drop in the car. For a clutch I chose a Turbos Unleashed 4 puck ceramic with the yellow pressure plate. The difference on the plate is there is an extra band welded inside to change the pivot point of the springs so it applies more force to the clutch disc with the same amount of foot pressure. I meant to take a picture of it before it went on but I forgot. So all you get is one of the outside.





Once the tranny was on we dropped it into the car which went pretty smoothly. I'm a little disapointed that I forgot to take the classic pic of the engine hanging over the car. I'm hoping Scott will come back and help me remove it again so I can get the pick. What do ya say Scott??? Here's what I have though. One right after we put it in and one with some thing bolted on for a feeling of what it is going to look like.





Overall an exciting day. It definately feels like it is getting closer to completion with every step. Hopefully I can here her purr by May long weekend. Here's hoping.
Special thanks to Scott (ssheen from turbo-2.com) who was at my place by 10AM and Jarrod (SOLID from srt4oa.com) who stopped by and added a very helpful third set of hands.

DJ

continues to look awesome. Keep up the good work!

Coop

Great job on the car,

You do realize all you had to do was go to the dealer and buy another oil filter adapter gasket and just stack them. You didn't need to make one. They stack fine, you could have just stacked three of them. You really only need two to fit the big filter...

Good job though.

Mike

Looks great! Needs an UDP though

Thanks,

Ya, I knew that. I made the aluminum piece because I didn't like the idea of an oring sealing on another oring. I'm sure it would be OK but it gave me better piece of mind doing it this way, espicially when the oiling system was concerned.



Thanks,

FWIW I think I will stick with the stock pulley to maintain some kind of harmonic balancer. At first I didn't know how the stock pully would be any differnt accept for maybe the added weight lowering the resonance frequency of the entire rotating system but today I noticed that there seem sto be a rubber layer seperating the outer pulley from the inner one. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but I thought it was a little curious.

DJ

Cool project! Too many pics on pg 1 though! Takes too long to load up even with dsl, lol.

The pulley isn't a balancer, since the engine is internally balanced, and the pulley isn't keyed. It's a vibration damper It's like adding a shock absorber to your crank. And you're right how every little bit helps. If you remove the balance shafts, you have a long distance from the last main bearing to the oil pump, that could lead to oil pump failure if it gets to many cycles of undamped vibration. This is only really necessary on 2.4L engines that will run higher than stock rev limits, but is good additional insurance otherwise.

You already have the DCR gears so I wouldn't even worry about it. A lot of what you find is DCR pulling wool over peoples eyes, but I also dont see what they have to gain buy not selling UDP's. Selling the oil system is a good profit for them as its all cheaply made stuff(simple design and oil filter kit is normal parts). If you find info from before the hype he clearly states its a detonation issue.

LOL, sorry about the pic overload. It's that way since I moved my log over from another forum and didn't think anyone would want to sift through the 10 pages for 1 page of pics. Maybe I should re title the thread with a "sorry ADSLers"

You're right about the balancer, I used the wrong word there. I meant to write damper and I really should have caught that one since I hate when people miss use terminology. So if anyone catches me doing it please point it out. (hope I didn't just set myself up there )

Maybe a UDP will be worth looking into later especially since I also had the rotating assembly balanced when I got all my work done. I don't know if I've settled my opinion one way or the other in my head. I plan to set my redline around 7000-7500 from what I've seen others doing with similar components. At least it is an easy change if I ever decide to go that route. What kind of gains are people seeing out of them? Also, when you buy one do you get a shorter belt with it or do you have to source that out yourself?

DJ