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 Post subject: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:14 am 
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I'm building a Dohc neon motor and I want to do it at 12:5:1 compression I have the 3.94 tranny too. What would I have to do for this engine to be able to have this compression and still be at 93 octane and street legel but get the most outa this motor also want to make it a stroker 2.2 engine


Last edited by rockenuptown on Wed May 04, 2011 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:21 am 
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There's a LOT you need to work on before you get an answer...

1.punctuation!
2.basic knowledge of your car (are you building a 420a swapped car or are you calling the neon motor a 420a? Because the neon motor IS NOT 420a)
3.search... It's your friend! :good: high compression pistons have been used on lots of builds and you will get basically any info you want from prior asked questions and old project logs

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:29 am 
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I don't think you are being realistic (dreamland).

For pump gas I would not go over 10.5 CR, and I would be very careful what cam I used.

You are walking a tightrope between detonation and low power gain.

A properly done turbo motor would probably last longer and put a bigger smile on your face.

I would also not mess with the little 2.0L, it's 2.4L all the way baby.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:45 am 
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ok so mostly drop the comp. down to 10:5:1 and i want crane cams so would a #10 cam work?


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:46 am 
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and my brother has the 2.4L thats why I don't want to use that. Also would the 2.2 crankshaft work well on an all motor application.


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:55 am 
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and what would my whp be if i did all that?


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:34 am 
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What are you going to use to tune your motor? SAFCl, FI/C, MS


rockenuptown wrote:
Also would the 2.2 crankshaft work well on an all motor application.


Spend the money you would have used on a 2.2 stroker kit on the following:

Complete 2.4
Crane Cams 0018 or Genuine Crower Stage 3.
Valve springs, probably Crower
Ported head from from Mike or Eddie here on the forums, they will ask you what cams you will run.
Box Intake , there are a few ppl here that make them, check the dealers area.
Long tube header.

You will have money left over, and a motor that operates in the same RPM range as a stock 2.0 making 50 lbs/ft more from 2000 to 6500

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:17 am 
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so im guessing if i want to go all motor what everyone is telling me is just get the srt4 motor and make it high compression what would i get outa that if i had it at the same comp. that i want and what would be the best tune


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:57 am 
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I have a 2l, 11.3/1 motor with SRT crower 3's and 93 pump gas works. I've ran it off a mopar ecu too. Build it, megasquirt it, tune it, drive it. All-Motor cost more and makes less power than a basic 2.4t build though, just for a reference.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:05 am 
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yea and i just looked into that and im seeing a d16z6 vtec at 13:1:1 compression on pump gas and yes i know that it produces less hp but all motor can go faster with less hp and ive seen youtube videos of dohc neons with a stroker kit running 10.8s 1/4 ima just go ahead and do what i first wanted to do and run a methnol injection kit to cut on at a certain rpm so it will have 100+ octane thx for everyones help but ima build what i want not what yall want i just want to be at 200hp anyways so like 50hp to go lol


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 Post subject: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:21 am 
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I would like to see that video of a 10.8 neon 2.2. Highly doubt it. Prob Ryan Warners allmotor car and def nothing streetable

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:39 am 
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12.5:1 on pump gas would probably be doable, but not on 18's... probably not on 22's either

perhaps dave could chime in, I am sure he has thoughts on it. I'd love to try a 12.5:1 with 26's and pump gas, maybe setup a tune for e85 on a MS3 or MS2... but I have a problem finishing my existing projects.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:08 pm 
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rockenuptown wrote:
yea and i just looked into that and im seeing a d16z6 vtec at 13:1:1 compression on pump gas and yes i know that it produces less hp but all motor can go faster with less hp and ive seen youtube videos of dohc neons with a stroker kit running 10.8s 1/4 ima just go ahead and do what i first wanted to do and run a methnol injection kit to cut on at a certain rpm so it will have 100+ octane thx for everyones help but ima build what i want not what yall want i just want to be at 200hp anyways so like 50hp to go lol


I don't think anyone is trying to "tell" you how to build your car. You asked a very general question with no reall facts on how you wanted to accomplish this goal or the parts you wanted to use. You are new to the forum and this is a question that gets asked on a weekly basis. "How do I make lots of power for cheap"
The search button can be quite your friend when it comes to finding out an answer to your question about doing an All Motor build.
The turbo build is such a cheaper route because of the abundancy of parts and how easy it is to make power from a turbo.
A 300HP turbo build will cost you $3000.
a 300HP all motor bild will costs you $10,000 (and not be streetable)

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:31 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3OzS5NLOk

and its 10.84 and idc about price i will build it and like i said my brother has his 2.4L turbo that i built so idnt really care about turbocharging it i know what im going to get and matter fact bisimoto built a f22a1 sohc 2.2l 485hp ran 9s so yes i can get this motor built just wait


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:00 pm 
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rockenuptown wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3OzS5NLOk

and its 10.84 and idc about price i will build it and like i said my brother has his 2.4L turbo that i built so idnt really care about turbocharging it i know what im going to get and matter fact bisimoto built a f22a1 sohc 2.2l 485hp ran 9s so yes i can get this motor built just wait



And this is were you get flamed off the board and never return.

1) that is my car. the car in that run made less then 300 HP.
2) the car weighs 1750 with me in it (no way you can make a street car this light)
3) Bisi never built an f22a1 NA that made 485 HP. If he did he would be employeed by one of the top F1 engine builders in the world and would not be screwing around with 4 clylinders.
4) Yes it ran 9's, but once again. 1750 lbs. 5 speed sequenctial transmission, wheelie bar. 330HP.

Don't talk about Bisi like you know him or he is your best friend. The man would be seriously leaf spring juice if he knew you and you were posting on here that you are buddies with him. You know what I take that back, the man is way to nice to get leaf spring juice about something like this. You talking like you know him leaf spring juice me off.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:06 pm 
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which proves my point neon can get over 200 hp


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:48 pm 
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rockenuptown wrote:
which proves my point neon can get over 200 hp



Yep....many people have done it. What is your point??

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Ryan Warner wrote:
rockenuptown wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3OzS5NLOk

and its 10.84 and idc about price i will build it and like i said my brother has his 2.4L turbo that i built so idnt really care about turbocharging it i know what im going to get and matter fact bisimoto built a f22a1 sohc 2.2l 485hp ran 9s so yes i can get this motor built just wait



And this is were you get flamed off the board and never return.

1) that is my car. the car in that run made less then 300 HP.
2) the car weighs 1750 with me in it (no way you can make a street car this light)
3) Bisi never built an f22a1 NA that made 485 HP. If he did he would be employeed by one of the top F1 engine builders in the world and would not be screwing around with 4 clylinders.
4) Yes it ran 9's, but once again. 1750 lbs. 5 speed sequenctial transmission, wheelie bar. 330HP.

Don't talk about Bisi like you know him or he is your best friend. The man would be seriously *a#S!d^f* if he knew you and you were posting on here that you are buddies with him. You know what I take that back, the man is way to nice to get *a#S!d^f* about something like this. You talking like you know him *a#S!d^f* me off.

And that gentlemen is laying the smack the leaf spring juice down... you've successfully leaf spring juice on and off just about everybody on these boards that you don't want to leaf spring juice off... may as well make up another user name and lose the tude, cuz this one is done. /thread

I wish the girlie cheerleader smiley wasn't gone, cuz I so want to do Ryan a cheer right now...

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:17 pm 
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rockenuptown wrote:
which proves my point neon can get over 200 hp


200 hp is nothing to sneeze at, but its not really breaking new ground.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Come on purp, you know you can always use :sarcastic: or :greet: or :yahoo: ...


:rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Ryan Warner wrote:
rockenuptown wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m3OzS5NLOk

and its 10.84 and idc about price i will build it and like i said my brother has his 2.4L turbo that i built so idnt really care about turbocharging it i know what im going to get and matter fact bisimoto built a f22a1 sohc 2.2l 485hp ran 9s so yes i can get this motor built just wait



And this is were you get flamed off the board and never return.

1) that is my car. the car in that run made less then 300 HP.
2) the car weighs 1750 with me in it (no way you can make a street car this light)
3) Bisi never built an f22a1 NA that made 485 HP. If he did he would be employeed by one of the top F1 engine builders in the world and would not be screwing around with 4 clylinders.
4) Yes it ran 9's, but once again. 1750 lbs. 5 speed sequenctial transmission, wheelie bar. 330HP.

Don't talk about Bisi like you know him or he is your best friend. The man would be seriously *a#S!d^f* if he knew you and you were posting on here that you are buddies with him. You know what I take that back, the man is way to nice to get *a#S!d^f* about something like this. You talking like you know him *a#S!d^f* me off.


Absolutely awesome. Told off by the man.

I think the OP misinterprets quite a few things.

1: Your DOHC doesn't make 150 HP. Dodge said they did, doesn't mean they do. Even if it did, that would only translate to ~130-135whp, which in reality the DOHCs only lay down in mid 120s at the wheels.
2. You want 200+ hp, but you want a crane 10? Those cams are good for a whole 4-6 HP, which is almost completely un-noticeable in the car since your powerband doesn't shift any.
3. 12.5:1 is possible in a street car, only if you don't go above 4000 RPM on the street. Jeff Ball had 12.5:1 with Crane 24s and he said it was absolutely horrible to drive since cams that large cause the car to buck around at low RPM cruising speeds. He also said the car would ping a bit if he went near 4k RPM. You could get a little higher if you went with larger cams. Sadly though, he did this with a 2.4. Cams that large in a 2.0 are even less streetable. The more displacement you have, the more mild the cams become. You want to stay with a 2.0, you can deal with the handicap.
4. Your car isn't a 420a. 420a is the designation for the 2.0 DOHC motors in the 2nd gen DSMs that were very similar to the neon engines, but with a reversed head and other changes.
5. Saying you don't want to go with a 2.4 because your brother has one is like saying you don't want to be attracted to women because your brother is. Its pointless. Do what works and whats proven, not to mention whats best. If you want to stay N/A, displacement is king. Doing whats 'different' only has a positive outcome when you are actually great at it. If everyone was great at it, then it wouldn't be 'different'. Something tells me you don't quite have the knowledge to do something that will stand out.
6. The 2.2 crankshaft will cost you more than an entire 2.4 swap and a set of cams, and make less power/torque.
7. A stock SRT-4 motor will make more power/torque at the crank than almost any all-motor build you'll come up with, and be infinitely more reliable. It'll also cost you half as much to just buy the SRT-4 motor and swap it in.
8. You've got the be the 10 millionth person to join the forums, and within his first 5 posts absolutely defy everything that everyone has tried to tell them before going on to say "I will do it cause I said and I don't care what you guys think/say"....... only to produce at least 1 epic fail before leaving the forums to live a life of sub-150whp.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:14 pm 
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Hex wrote:
If you want to stay N/A, displacement is king.

There is NO substitute for cubic inches, a blower and a bottle....


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:33 pm 
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OhioHomesteader wrote:
Hex wrote:
If you want to stay N/A, displacement is king.

There is NO substitute for cubic inches, a blower and a bottle....


I disagree. Blowers are inefficient and only beat turbochargers in throttle response and part throttle torque off-idle.

Tons of power can be made without cubic inches, its just more reliable and produces more torque when you have them.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Forget the boost - forget the bottle.

There is NO substitute for cubic inches.

Unless it is weight - or rather, the lack thereof..


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:26 pm 
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OhioHomesteader wrote:
Forget the boost - forget the bottle.

There is NO substitute for cubic inches.

Unless it is weight - or rather, the lack thereof..


I said earlier that when you are N/A, displacement is king. When you are forced induction, 1000+ HP is doable whether its 2L or 10L. The only difference is, you might be able to drive the 10L on the street without it overheating or wanting to crap out on you. I've met guys with Supras that put more power to the wheels than my Nova does, even though I've got 150% more displacement, and the Nova is NO slouch in the N/A department.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:03 am 
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Let's put the quotable quotes all in one spot.

rockenuptown wrote:
ok so mostly drop the comp. down to 10:5:1 and i want crane cams so would a #10 cam work?


rockenuptown wrote:
and my brother has the 2.4L thats why I don't want to use that. Also would the 2.2 crankshaft work well on an all motor application.


rockenuptown wrote:
and what would my whp be if i did all that?


rockenuptown wrote:
so im guessing if i want to go all motor what everyone is telling me is just get the srt4 motor and make it high compression what would i get outa that if i had it at the same comp. that i want and what would be the best tune


rockenuptown wrote:
and its 10.84 and idc about price i will build it and like i said my brother has his 2.4L turbo that i built so idnt really care about turbocharging it i know what im going to get and matter fact bisimoto built a f22a1 sohc 2.2l 485hp ran 9s so yes i can get this motor built just wait


rockenuptown wrote:
which proves my point neon can get over 200 hp


Apparently you've already built a 2.4 turbo car. Why are you asking all these questions if you already know the answers to them? You need to read. What I'd also suggest you do, is make a new username. You started off wrong, and made everyone leaf spring juice off.

200 WHP is done on stock blocks now. Shazam made 203 whp on a dyno, with a stock stratus 2.4 block, a stock dohc head that had just been milled, crower stage 4 cams, a long tube, a mopar ECU, and a box intake. That's it. If he had a megasquirt computer, and a ported head, the car would have made a lot more hp.

Learn yourself before you just start assuming that things work, things will go together, and that you can make 485 whp on a neon motor that you can daily.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:13 pm 
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welcome to neons.org

where beating a dead horse is not only optional, it is required.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:12 am 
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dhampir wrote:
welcome to neons.org

where beating a dead horse is not only optional, it is required.

perfect...^^^^ :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Only reason I really quoted all those was so he couldn't go edit his posts and delete them out.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:05 pm 
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First off, the OP's a douche. I'm not gonna comment anymore on that. Second, I think 12.5CR on a 2.0L or 2.2L may be possible on 93 oct. "Streetable" is a matter of opinion. I would take the time to focus on the piston design, combustion chamber design, coatings, intake, exhaust and cam selection. With the right combination, it might work fine. Tuning would also need to be attended to. I don't think it would be an easy, quick, slap it together build, but "possible".

Anyway, I just wanted to post... :greet:

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:10 pm 
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12.5:1 needs a lot of duration for pump gas. crane 22s won't really cut it, no. cranking compression will be in the 250psi+ range.

too many contradictions in so few sentences to even start to make sense.


rockenuptown wrote:
I'm building a Dohc neon motor and I want to do it at 12:5:1 compression I have the 3.94 tranny too. What would I have to do for this engine to be able to have this compression and still be at 93 octane and street legel but get the most outa this motor also want to make it a stroker 2.2 engine

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Guys, I don't think he's coming back...

I predicted this earlier:

8. You've got the be the 10 millionth person to join the forums, and within his first 5 posts absolutely defy everything that everyone has tried to tell them before going on to say "I will do it cause I said and I don't care what you guys think/say"....... only to produce at least 1 epic fail before leaving the forums to live a life of sub-150whp.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Hex wrote:
Guys, I don't think he's coming back...

I predicted this earlier:

8. You've got the be the 10 millionth person to join the forums, and within his first 5 posts absolutely defy everything that everyone has tried to tell them before going on to say "I will do it cause I said and I don't care what you guys think/say"....... only to produce at least 1 epic fail before leaving the forums to live a life of sub-150whp.
and a no-motor build.


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:22 pm 
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He's not coming back because I told him not to, not cuz of your silly prediction Joe... pssssssshhh. For reals.


:grin:

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:55 pm 
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This is one of those times I wish this forum had less rules. This would never happen in the Viper alley or the Supra Forums. They would verbally beat you then go to your home and drown your cat.

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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:02 am 
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I always wanted a guard cat - with 8 inch paws. Just seems better than a guard dog.


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 Post subject: Re: All motor build
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:58 am 
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98chrysler wrote:
This is one of those times I wish this forum had less rules. This would never happen in the Viper alley or the Supra Forums. They would verbally beat you then go to your home and drown your cat.


But on forums with more rules or ones that automatically pop up similar threads (like an auto-search), idiots like this wouldn't be able to post as often, or they'd be stuck in the 1st gen forum and not allowed to start a thread in the cooler areas...

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