www.neons.org

Do the Honda guys actually use time based boost control? It just seems archaic to me. The gear based boost control works so good for me, I don't know if I could switch to anything else. I tried using VSS boost control, and worked on another car that was trying it out, and it just didn't seem to behave the way I wanted it to. The problem was it really needs its own software and logic to work the way I'd like it. When its on the back wheel, it didn't know if the front wheels were spinning. When it was on the front wheels, it didn't know if it was accelerating or spinning. So if you combined them both with a logic program, it could figure out if it needed to add or reduce boost. (traction control) I just don't feel that traction control is the best way to keep an oversize turbo spinning and making the most power.

Using the shift counter and boost controller with adjustable ramp times works so damn good, you can make a 600 HP street bike hook using a street tire and no wheelie bar. I really don't see a problem adding microswitches to the shifter hardstops. The logic is already taken care of, and I can use them to activate ignition kill when no switches are triggered, (during a shift) for WOT shifting.

(It'll be fun to see who's reading this thread when racing season comes around, lol.)

If someone happens to this trans, Len, will you finally consider going auto for us .

Actually I'm excited to see how this dogbox does, especially if you get the spark cut figured out when shifting. Hoping to see 9's in your future.

I already have a 4 spd auto out of a 98 Breeze. I bought the engine and trans together. It would've been my trans of choice, until this trans was developed.

A couple of pics of the trans internals. I'm only waiting for Tim Kish to finish up the spool, and then I can assemble the rest of it.

Looking great len

This is a much different type of engagement system than a conventional automotive MTX.
It uses dogs like a motorcycle instead of synchronizers . But unlike a motorcycle which uses major
gear redux before the gearsets, the input shaft is still running at crank speed.

Is this how the SRT output shaft is supported??? Our 1st gens have the output shaft bearing
on the tip of the shaft, not between 2d and the output gear.

You can see that the stock synchro is being used for the 5th/reverse gear as a comparison to the dog teeth.

Yeah the bearing is located in between the 1st gear and the output pinion gear. Everything on this trans is much beefier and heavier.
It's also worlds easier to work on and replace worn parts. All the parts were easy to remove and install the new gears and dogs, as well as the re-assembly into the trans case. An all-around much more serviceable unit. The only thing I have issues with are the brass shift forks.

That's the first time I have seen the internals of ta dog box. Very interesting.

It looks like you are using a pilot beraing. Which one are you using and did you have to modify the crank at all? I want to add one to the shadow but I will have to extend the input shaft. If there was a bearing that would just fit the 2.4 crank that would make part of it easier.

Ill be the first to admit I have no idea what I am looking at in those pics.

I do know I wish I had that same setup in my car though.

Straight cut gears. Very strong, you can shift stupid fast, and the harder you shift, the better it shifts, its weird. You get some CRAZY loud drivetrain noises though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLS2BPL1XKM

My evo has a first gear that is close to straight cut, so it sounds similar, but all of the other gears are normal.

--mark

It sounds kind of like a loud supercharger whine.

Good luck with this dog box len. I have heard these are also blowing up with high HP cars.

what are you going to do about the shift fork situation? The stock shift forks cause lots of problems

I was told that the shift forks shouldn't be a problem. The sliders work effortlessly, but if I do miss a shift, I think there might be problem with bending the shift fork. I have spares, and the shift selecter is billet steel.
I know why the high HP Hondas are blowing up trannies, and it has all to do with having a weak trans case. The T850 has a super stout case compared to a Honda b-series case.

I just did a mph check of the gearing, and I can do 60 mph in 1st gear with 26" slicks. I'll also only be at 7520 rpm to trap at 150 mph. That leaves me with another 700-800 rpm if the car runs faster than 150 in the 1/4 mile.

Comparing to my old 3.55 trans shifting at 8500 rpm:
________3.77 T850________3.55 T350
1st______60 mph__________52 mph
2nd_____86 mph__________85 mph
3rd_____115 mph_________135 mph
4th_____150 @ 7520______150 @ 6675 * I couldn't go any higher than 150 mph with the gear calculator I was using.

The ratios are setup so that I should be shifting into 4th just around the 1/8 mile, which is a typical drag setup with a 4 spd trans.

Wow Len looks sick man, maybe i missed it but who built that trans im really jealous and watering at the mouth at the same time.

Thanks. Off-topic, but I'll be working in Sharonville, OH and staying in Blue Ash for a couple weeks starting 3/11, if anyone wants to hang out and have beers after work.

Interesting, so that's where the bearing is on the OE SRT-4 trans??

And, now I counted and see SIX gearsets, you say one is reverse???
I had just looked at the size of the gears, and saw the one on the input shaft passenger's
end was the smallest, so figured this trans also had first in a diff locale than the 1st gen,
and the one on the passengers end was next largest, so it'd be 2d. Evidently not.

Very interesting that you've gone this far to basically reman/redesign the trans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The trans looks like the stuff! Good stuff.

The gears are in the same order as the stock 850.

I'm still curious about the pilot bearing :poke: and I'm curious why you went straight cut for everything except the FD? Did you just not want to make another ring gear?

No pilot bearing. Don't need it. Final drive and 5th gear don't need to be straight cut. The ring gear and pinion have been tempered, and shot peened. The ring gear by itself is extremely burly compared to the T350.

Uptown, the gears are in the same order as stock. 5th and reverse share the same synchos. Only the gear ratios and the dog teeth are different for 1st through 4th gear, and the input shaft is bigger at the splines. I also have a billet 3-4 shift selector bolted to the stock brass shift fork.

I thought they made billet forks also for the 850? I guess only the selectors? I have seen the forks bend locally, so I am just suprised no one has picked up on it. I'm sure it's nothing you couldn't have machined with your skills and contacts.

I was thinking about this today, instead of doing the crazy switches, how about putting an ignition cut switch on the "Dead pedal" area? Kind of lame, but still an idea to get you out of gear. Almost like hitting the clutch too, just over farther.

What's the status of the car?

Baller status, of course.

BUT, when are you gonna update the thread? LOL... No big bling-bling gold rims on it these days right? Mwaahahaa

I am awaiting pictures of the pimp cane shifter

Never did i think those words would be typed by you. You must have picked up to many lines last time you visited us boys in the D.

Drew

I'm doing some mods I don't want to show anyone right now. I'll show pics of the car when i can get the new fenders and bumper installed.

Those mods have already been done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5sOCEUpGZI

That should be by the end of the month! Everything is still on track for it!

dude this neon is SERIOUS!!! you make some sweet stuff man why dont you go into the market of selling some of your custom fabbed stuff. i wouldnt mind a battery tray in the bumper to hold a little odyssey battery. or those nice suspension pieces. this thing has got to be a monster. awesome work man just awesome

hehe.

He did at one point... the ChillFactory initiative...

Anyways... back on topic...

Secretive stuff, maybe someday a RWD street car will show up!

Okay, I finally got an adapter flange made to mount the hydraulic throw out bearing in the T850 trans.
Here's the old setup with the standard throw out bearing, and clutch fork. The fork is much beefier than the stamped steel one in the T350, but it wears out easily on the contact surface, and the stock master and slave cylinders are not up to the job of controlling a twin disc clutch.


....and here's the hydraulic throw out bearing installed on the new mounting flange I made. Eliminates a lot of stuff in there, and adds some more control to my clutch foot. The stock srt master and slave cylinders are replaced with a Tilton master cylinder, steel braided lines, and the throw out bearing becomes the new slave cylinder. There's also a flow control valve plumbed inline to slow down the clutch release, so I can side-step the clutch pedal, and have a controlled release at the launch.

That is SICK!!!!!!!1

Len,

Is that clutch release valve adjustable with a changeable orifice or something? My BMW 540i/6 has one of those on it, and it is god awful. I can't wait to get a chance to get it off of there. Makes it seem like I have no idea how to drive with a manual trans. The clutch work in the neon by comparison, even with the slightly strange PT clutch, is like direct link from brain to clutch. HATE the CDV! ! ! (clutch delay valve in BMW terminology)

Len,

Everyone fast in the evo world has a hydrolic clutch setup. What is the benefit to this over a traditional fork design? They claim less broken input shafts, faster shifts, and less transmission wear, but I don't fully understand why.

--mark

The clutch fork isn't consistent. It wears out or bends. And the stock Neon hydraulic stuff is all plastic, which flexes and leaks or fails eventually. The flow control valve is a one way flow control that has an adjustable orifice like Tjabo thought it would. You can push the clutch in at full force, and it behaves normally, but when you release it, it has a controlled release to prevent a 100% shock load from hitting the trans during a high rpm launch. It's something you want if you have a lot of HP/torque and a twin disc clutch, lol. It's just one more thing to give some consistency and durability to this trans, and one less thing I have to worry about at the track.

That's pretty slick. Obviously the mechanics are the same, so it would work on a traditional style cluctch, not just a twin disk, but would the non instant release be bad for a normal clutch? I'm doing my buschur trans in a week or so with an act hd pressure plate and solid sprung disk, so now would be the best time to do the hydrolog setup if it's best!

I'm impressed every time you post and update, Len. I think we're all on the edge of our seats waiting for a sound clip from that exhaust

Ahh, you and me both, but unfortunately I'll be heading back to Europe again soon.

Nemo at Rage-Tek had a hydraulic TOB available for the SRT-4 trans, but it used a different brand of TOB, and the mounting flange was sheetmetal. They don't sell them any longer. Not sure why. I made an extra mounting flange just in case I need it. It won't be offered for sale.