tranny help!

[rcommando25]

alright so i got a 95 automatic SOHC neon. it has always had tranny problems since i bought it from the PO. It shifts high and hard going up in gears and shifts hard going down in gears.

on bad days it can shift from first to second around 25-30 mph. it will shift from second to third around 55 mph.
on better days it will shift around 20-25 and then again around 45.

the first shift is always hard and the second one can be nice and smooth (it depends on the day)

coming down in gears, on a good day only going from 2nd to first will be hard but on bad days, both will be hard.

going to park and neutral and all that is no problem but if i were to manually put it in first or second it does not respond and will continue going as if it were still in "drive".

i dont really know much transmissions so any help would be helpful. I have added the "stop slip" solution and changed the transmission filter and that helped for a little bit but then got bad again. Ive heard to have my bands adjusted but im not sure.

once again any help would be nice, thanks for all the help in the past!

[79asspin]

Check your kick down cable, It might be sticking.

[rcommando25]

kick down cable? what is it and where is it located?

[sandstone]

Sounds like you need to adjust the kickdown cable and adjust the kickdown/2nd gear band (on the external trans).

Also adjust your throttle (kickdown) cable (have to remove the battery and tray) by unlocking the crosslock (pull it upwards) and moving the throttle lever fully clockwise (the cable will be obvious because it's attached to the throttle body). With the throttle lever moved fully clockwise, push the crosslock back down, and you're done!

As far as canging the fluid, use only Mopar ATF + 4. Might as well adjust the low/reverse band (covered by the pan) while you're changing the fluid and filter.

31TH ATX BAND ADJUSTMENT:


KICKDOWN BAND
The kickdown band adjusting screw is located on
left side (top front) of the transaxle case.
(1) Loosen locknut and back–off nut approximately
five turns. Test adjusting screw for free turning in
the transaxle case.
(2) Using wrench, tighten adjusting screw to 8
N·m (72 in. lbs.).
(3) Back–off adjusting screw 2 1/4 turns. Hold adjusting screw in this
position and tighten locknut to 47 N·m (35ft. lbs.)

LOW/REVERSE BAND
To adjust low/reverse band, proceed as follows:
(1) Loosen and back off locknut approximately five
turns.
(2) Using an inch-pound torque wrench, tighten
adjusting screw to 5 N·m (41 in. lbs.).
(3) Back–off adjusting screw 3 1/2 turns. (4) Tighten locknut to 14 N·m (10 ft. lbs.).

[rcommando25]

alright, thanks a lot! when i get a hold of a inch-pound torque wrench ill check it out.

one last thing, do you have any pics or diagrams of where these bands are and all the bolts and everything? the manual i always refer to does not have these in there.

thanks again, you guys are a great help!

[sandstone]

do you have any pics or diagrams of where these bands are and all the bolts and everything?

Looking at the neon ATX 31TH from the front of the car: note kickdown band adjusting screw in upper left of pic -



Looking at the neon ATX 31TH from below, adjusting the low/reverse band:



The diagram below is of a low/reverse band in a Chrysler 37RH (Torqueflite 727) and shows what the adjusting screw and locknut look like. Very similar in the neon 31TH:

[rcommando25]

alright, so heres an update:

i did the kickdown band like you told me, the one on top of the trans.

I looked at the crosslink (the one attached to the throttlebody) and i thought it looked fine so i didnt do anything to that.

I took the car out for a test drive and it started out perfect, shifting fast and smooth. But the more i drove it the more normal it became and started to shift high and harder.

would doing the low/reverse band help too? because it appears that it didnt help at all but i did not do the low/reverse band because it was too much work today because of the time restraint i have.

[sandstone]

I'd change the trans fluid (use only Mopar ATF+4), adjust the low/reverse band, and adjust the throttle linkage. Sometimes just a simple fluid change works wonders!

[79asspin]

How's it perform at Wide-Open Throttle (WOT)? Does it seem normal? How many miles?

[tylerdurden77]

I had the opposite problem, until yesterday, now I have the same problem. I had tried to free up the kickdown cable a couple month ago, and the sensor broke off! Could the new problem be caused by the kickdown sensor moving to WOT position?

[sandstone]

I had the opposite problem, until yesterday, now I have the same problem. I had tried to free up the kickdown cable a couple month ago, and the sensor broke off!

What sensor broke off?

Could the new problem be caused by the kickdown sensor moving to WOT position?

There is no "kickdown sensor."

Shifting is controlled hydraulically by governer pressure and throttle pressure. When governor pressure (controlled by vehicle speed) exceeds throttle pressure, then upshift occurs. When throttle pressure exceeds governor pressure, then downshift occurs.

If the throttle linkage is not adjusted properly, then the transmission's throttle pressure system will not reflect the actual throttle position, resulting in shifts occurring too early or too late. Problems with the governor will have the same result.

[rcommando25]

alright, sorry for bein MIA for a few days guys.

the car has around 150k miles on it. at WOT it works fine. I try not to do it often to help with gas milage and so i didnt rush the trans (because it was shifting high and hard).

On the linkage, just to make sure, you have to take off or loosen a bolt to take off the top on to be able to move it correct?

I will have to change the oil and check out the low/reverse band. Theres a problem though because i believe you have to set it at 41 in/lbs. I only have a Ft/lb torque wrench that goes down to 10 ft/lbs and i just bought a in/lb that only goes down to 120, which is the same torque.

ill have to try and find one before i can do anything again

[sandstone]

On the linkage, just to make sure, you have to take off or loosen a bolt to take off the top on to be able to move it correct?

No bolt. Just pry up on the crosslock (where the bracket holds the cable to the trans) to free the cable prior to adjustment.

Theres a problem though because i believe you have to set it at 41 in/lbs. I only have a Ft/lb torque wrench that goes down to 10 ft/lbs and i just bought a in/lb that only goes down to 120, which is the same torque.

ill have to try and find one before i can do anything again

Sears carries this, as do most serious bicycle shops.

[tylerdurden77]

Sorry, I'm not very good with terminology


I guess it would be the throttle linkage post. (where the bracket holds the cable to the trans)

[sandstone]

Sorry, I'm not very good with terminology


I guess it would be the throttle linkage post. (where the bracket holds the cable to the trans)

Breaking that bracket and its associated components will result in maladjustment of the throttle pressure cable, causing shifts to occur too soon, or too late, or, by chance just right. You need to replace the broken components so that the throttle pressure adjustment stays where it's supposed to be.

[rcommando25]

alright, thanks a lot. i have a bike shop in town so ill give them a call and if not ill have to make a drive up to sears. Ill change the fluid and adjust the bolt and see if its not completely fixed. If not then ill do the throttle linkage cable.

Thanks so much for your help btw, your a god-send. haha.

[79asspin]

I’ve personally never used a torque wrench when it came to band adjustments, just snug it up a bit with a short wrench, kind of like what the dude appears to be doing in fig. 74 (above photo).

Just some food for thought, band adjustment can be achieved using one of three methods (that I know of). The most typical is described above, shift kit manufacture, Transgo, mentions measuring the slop of the band and the “drag method”. Each of these three methods will produce slightly different results but the point is…. 150k miles dictates band adjustments (if it’s never been done before). 150k should also dictate that you PM the kickdown assembly.

As long as we’re posting FMS scans, here’s a couple of the kickdown or throttle pressure cable adjustment. I didn’t crop the second scan as it shows the band adjustment procedure.






You do mention that WOT operation seems normal, if shift points at WOT happen at around, say, 6k? RPMs and your kickdown is stuck or sticking close to this position, then the transmission thinks that you have it “floored”, even if you’re driving conservatively, shifts just won’t occur until you reach higher RPMs.

[rcommando25]

your last post just made me think of something. when i was test driving it, i was driving conservative and it was goin great. then i floored it and it went to hell after that so it could be sticking sometimes.

how do i get it so it doesnt stick? or do i just adjust it and it fixes that problem?

[sandstone]

your last post just made me think of something. when i was test driving it, i was driving conservative and it was goin great. then i floored it and it went to hell after that so it could be sticking sometimes.

how do i get it so it doesnt stick? or do i just adjust it and it fixes that problem?

Remove the battery and its tray. You'll see the shift lever and throttle lever on the transmission. Spray them with PB Blaster, WD 40, or a silicone lubricant. Let it soak in for at least 5 minutes. Then move the throttle lever back and forth. The throttle lever is to one that has the cable that attaches to the throttle body. Move the lever back and forth throughout its range till you feel no binding. 80% of the time, this will solve the problem.


See
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f ... t=kickdown

[718ttsrt4]

Hey i have a questioned..im swapping in the 31th in my 04 sxt..i would like to know is the kickdown cable the same as the shifter cable?

[sandstone]

Hey i have a questioned..im swapping in the 31th in my 04 sxt..i would like to know is the kickdown cable the same as the shifter cable?

No. kickdown cable = throttle pressure control cable. See below:

[blackeneon97]

I had to do this to my 97, before the tranny wouldnt downshift at all unless I slowed down. I had the slowest Neon ever. If you take any kind of lubricant or degreaser and let it sit on the kickdown lever and then work it back and forth it will finally break free. My advice is too use a pair of vice grips and clamp down on the lever. Keep moving it back and forth until you can easily do this with your hands. After I did this, it was like a brand new car! By the way, im not trying to take credit for this information! I learned this from the smarter people on this site. Im just testifying to the great advice you can get from neons.org

[MASE S]

your last post just made me think of something. when i was test driving it, i was driving conservative and it was goin great. then i floored it and it went to hell after that so it could be sticking sometimes.

how do i get it so it doesnt stick? or do i just adjust it and it fixes that problem?

Remove the battery and its tray. You'll see the shift lever and throttle lever on the transmission. Spray them with PB Blaster, WD 40, or a silicone lubricant. Let it soak in for at least 5 minutes. Then move the throttle lever back and forth. The throttle lever is to one that has the cable that attaches to the throttle body. Move the lever back and forth throughout its range till you feel no binding. 80% of the time, this will solve the problem.


See
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f ... t=kickdown

If the lubricant doesn't free it up, the whole valvebody must be removed to clean the shaft that keeps sticking.

[kmlewis]

your last post just made me think of something. when i was test driving it, i was driving conservative and it was goin great. then i floored it and it went to hell after that so it could be sticking sometimes.

how do i get it so it doesnt stick? or do i just adjust it and it fixes that problem?

Remove the battery and its tray. You'll see the shift lever and throttle lever on the transmission. Spray them with PB Blaster, WD 40, or a silicone lubricant. Let it soak in for at least 5 minutes. Then move the throttle lever back and forth. The throttle lever is to one that has the cable that attaches to the throttle body. Move the lever back and forth throughout its range till you feel no binding. 80% of the time, this will solve the problem.


See
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f ... t=kickdown

If the lubricant doesn't free it up, the whole valvebody must be removed to clean the shaft that keeps sticking.

My father is a tranmission mechanic of 35 years, and has built three neons, this is definitely the problem/solution. If it isn't the cable then it is the linkage itself.

[sandstone]

As long as we’re posting FMS scans, here’s a couple of the kickdown or throttle pressure cable adjustment. I didn’t crop the second scan as it shows the band adjustment procedure.

And here are some photos that will help those who are confused about manipulating the "crosslock".

The crosslock in the closed position:



Grabbing the crosslock to open (unlock) it:



The crosslock fully opened (unlocked):



In the image below you can see the serrations that the crosslock locks onto to alter the length of the cable segment between the crosslock and the cable's lever end on the trans:



In the image below the crosslock is locked in position so that the cable segment is at its minimum extension. Lengthening the cable segment by pulling it out of the crosslock (with the crosslock open or unlocked) compresses the spring behind the crosslock:


There is no need to remove the throttle pressure cable from its bracket on the trans to do these adjustments.

[alpinegreenneon]

Almost every ATX 1st Gen Neon eventually has some or all of these symptoms:
1. It seems to take a higher speed before it shifts to the next gear and the shifts seem harsh.
2. You notice higher than usual RPMs for any given speed.
3. If you floor the gas pedal, it shifts itself into neutral.

The cause is that the kickdown lever/shaft has rusted to the shifter lever/shaft. It may be only sometimes or it may be every time you accelerate depending on how much corrosion there is. Over time, the shaft within a shaft will corrode to the point that the shafts are no longer independent of each other.

The kickdown is supposed to determine how much throttle pressure there is so that the transaxle can correctly shift at the appropriate rpm or even downshift when necessary. If you accelerate gently, the shift points will occur at fairly low speeds. If you aggressively accelerate, the shift points occur at higher rpms.

The solution is to free up the kickdown shaft from the shifter shaft. This requires some dis-assembly. This is something almost anyone can do with some very basic tools. The first step is to remove the battery and battery tray to gain access to the top of the transaxle. While it is possible to just free up the kickdown lever with some rust penetrating oil without any further dis-assembly, most of the time, it will be easier to take a few things apart for better access. Use a 10 mm socket to loosen and remove the kickdown lever and the shifter lever clamp bolts. Use penetrating oil if necessary. You may need to hold the 13 mm square nut with a wrench. Use a large flat head screwdriver in the groove to gently spread the lever clamps. Both levers should be removed before proceding to the next step. Wipe up the rust and you will be able to see a C-clip on the smaller diameter shaft. Pry that off with a small screwdriver and then remove the washer under the C-clip. Do not remove the C-clip until both the kickdown and shifter levers have been removed. Be careful not to lose the C-clip. You should now have removed these 3 fasteners:


The shafts should be now easily accessible:


Spray plenty of penetrating oil on the area where the small diameter shaft meets the larger shaft. Notice that the shafts have a flat side, so it has the shape of the letter D. This keeps the levers in the correct position in relation to the shafts. Now place both of the levers back on the shafts. Use adjustable wrenches on the levers and gently try to turn the inner kickdown lever/shaft while holding the larger shifter lever/shaft. There should be about 60 degrees of movement as shown here:




Keep spraying and turning the kickdown shaft. Once you have it free enough that the spring inside the cable is able to move the kickdown lever by itself, you are almost ready to reassemble. A synthetic grease like Mobil1 chassis grease should last a long time and prevent this problem from recurring soon.


Place a generous amount of grease around the inner shaft:


Use the washer to press the grease down into the seal. Push the C-clip back into it's groove:


Replace the two clamp bolts and tighten:


Replace the battery tray and the battery. Don't forget the battery temp sensor if you are using the original battery tray. If the shifts still do not seem correct, use the procedure from the FSM to adjust the kickdown cable.

EDIT:
Please be careful not to pull up or push down on the shifter shaft once the C-clip is removed. You might dislodge the shaft from the internal detent. Once you dislodge it, you will need to drop the pan and remove the valve body to reposition the shaft.
A dislodged shifter shaft:




It isn't too hard to fix, just a lot more work. If you want to be safe, put the C-clip back on while you are getting the shafts to move freely. The internal detent:

[ExpressoNate]

Almost every ATX 1st Gen Neon eventually has some or all of these symptoms:
1. It seems to take a higher speed before it shifts to the next gear and the shifts seem harsh.
2. You notice higher than usual RPMs for any given speed.
3. If you floor the gas pedal, it shifts itself into neutral.

The cause is that the kickdown lever/shaft has rusted to the shifter lever/shaft. It may be only sometimes or it may be every time you accelerate depending on how much corrosion there is. Over time, the shaft within a shaft will corrode to the point that the shafts are no longer independent of each other.

The kickdown is supposed to determine how much throttle pressure there is so that the transaxle can correctly shift at the appropriate rpm or even downshift when necessary. If you accelerate gently, the shift points will occur at fairly low speeds. If you aggressively accelerate, the shift points occur at higher rpms.

The solution is to free up the kickdown shaft from the shifter shaft. This requires some dis-assembly. This is something almost anyone can do with some very basic tools. The first step is to remove the battery and battery tray to gain access to the top of the transaxle. While it is possible to just free up the kickdown lever with some rust penetrating oil without any further dis-assembly, most of the time, it will be easier to take a few things apart for better access. Use a 10 mm socket to loosen and remove the kickdown lever and the shifter lever clamp bolts. Use penetrating oil if necessary. You may need to hold the 13 mm square nut with a wrench. Use a large flat head screwdriver in the groove to gently spread the lever clamps. Both levers should be removed before proceding to the next step. Wipe up the rust and you will be able to see a C-clip on the smaller diameter shaft. Pry that off with a small screwdriver and then remove the washer under the C-clip. Do not remove the C-clip until both the kickdown and shifter levers have been removed. Be careful not to lose the C-clip. You should now have removed these 3 fasteners:


The shafts should be now easily accessible:


Spray plenty of penetrating oil on the area where the small diameter shaft meets the larger shaft. Notice that the shafts have a flat side, so it has the shape of the letter D. This keeps the levers in the correct position in relation to the shafts. Now place both of the levers back on the shafts. Use adjustable wrenches on the levers and gently try to turn the inner kickdown lever/shaft while holding the larger shifter lever/shaft. There should be about 60 degrees of movement as shown here:




Keep spraying and turning the kickdown shaft. Once you have it free enough that the spring inside the cable is able to move the kickdown lever by itself, you are almost ready to reassemble. A synthetic grease like Mobil1 chassis grease should last a long time and prevent this problem from recurring soon.


Place a generous amount of grease around the inner shaft:


Use the washer to press the grease down into the seal. Push the C-clip back into it's groove:


Replace the two clamp bolts and tighten:


Replace the battery tray and the battery. Don't forget the battery temp sensor if you are using the original battery tray. If the shifts still do not seem correct, use the procedure from the FSM to adjust the kickdown cable.

EDIT:
Please be careful not to pull up or push down on the shifter shaft once the C-clip is removed. You might dislodge the shaft from the internal detent. Once you dislodge it, you will need to drop the pan and remove the valve body to reposition the shaft.
A dislodged shifter shaft:




It isn't too hard to fix, just a lot more work. If you want to be safe, put the C-clip back on while you are getting the shafts to move freely. The internal detent:

Recycled because Case's explanation saved me from replacing a transmission. The one on my "new" car was stuck solid! almost an hour later, it was working again. Perfectly.

[pdqneon]

A+ for good info. My daughter's 96 neon now shifts like never before.

[sandstone]

A+ for good info. My daughter's 96 neon now shifts like never before.

YAY!

[whitey]

now my question is the kickdown cable should be able to move freely in any gear with the car off correct cause ith car off and in neutral i cant move that kick down cable at all so im assumeing its stuck to the other linkage like stated above goin to try this soon and also u can leave that c-clip on that rod while you work those two back and forth?

[alpinegreenneon]

The kickdown cable and shaft should move independently no matter what gear position the shifter is in.

[alpinegreenneon]

Since this problem is so common, I thought I would add some more details.
You do not need to remove the e-clip to remove the two clamps. It is actually better not to remove the e-clip until you have both clamps removed. You can try to free up the shafts without removing the e-clip first. If you can't get it to loosen, then remove the e-clip. When you try moving the shift selector shaft, the ignition key should be in the ON position. When you replace the e-clip on the kickdown shaft, make sure the washer is under the e-clip. If you still manage to dislodge either shaft, it is not difficult to get everything back the way it should be.

Valve body removal.
Remove all the bolts holding the trans oil pan except two, one on each side. Those two should be loose enough that they will keep the pan from falling off and getting 4 or more quarts of trans fluid out all at once. It may take a little careful prying to get the RTV gasket to release. Let the fluid drain until it slows down some and then remove the last two bolts. Remove the two T-25 torx screws that hold the filter and gasket. Make a mental note of how it should go back on. On the drivers side of the valve body is the Park rod held on with an e-clip. Remove that e-clip carefully and don't lose it. Move the Park rod forward until the rod is free from the Park pawl and remove the rod. Remember how the rod fits under the spring loaded Park pawl. Next remove the seven 10 mm bolts that hold the valve body. Remove the TCC connector from behind the dip stick tube. Carefully rock the valve body back and forth to loosen it up. You can push down from the top on the kickdown and shift shafts. As the valve body comes down, remove the two governor tubes from the valve body. Once the valve body is out, set it on a clean surface.

Reposition the shafts
There are three things that must be in their correct positions. First, (top arrow) the shift selector must be at the same level as the detent spring and the detent spring should engage the the detents in the selector. Next, (lower right arrow) the selector tab must be in the correct position on the manual shift valve. Last, (lower left arrow) the kickdown lever must be in position on the kickdown valve.



Verify that everything works
Put the valve body back into the trans. Don't forget the governor tubes. Put on the washer and e-clip on the kickdown shaft. Attach the two clamps on the shafts. Loosely install the seven bolts. Look at the selector tab on the manual shift valve as you shift through all the positions. You should see it move the valve in and out and you should feel each detent. Move the kickdown shaft to make sure that the little lever on the end of the shaft moves the kickdown valve in and out.

Manual shift valve in Park position.


Manual shift valve in Drive position and kickdown lever in idle position.


Finish
Install the Park rod and replace the e-clip. Torque all 7 valve body bolts to 105 in lbs. Install the new filter and gasket with the 2 T-25 torx screws to 45 in lbs. Clean any old RTV on the pan and the trans mating surface. Clean the magnet. Apply a bead of an appropriate RTV on the pan and install the pan as soon as possible and torque (165 in lbs) down the bolts. If you are using a rubber gasket, you do not need to torque the bolts as much or the gasket will crack and all the bolt holes in the pan will deform. Refill the trans with ATF+4. You may need more than 4 quarts because removing the valve body lets more of the old fluid out. Don't forget to reconnect the TCC connector.

[jimbo in MI]

Thanks for that Case, I keep meaning to add that information. If you know it can happen, you can usually prevent it.

I have also been pretty lucky a couple times and I could feel where the kickdown should fit without removing the pan. You can visualize those pictures as you lift up and down to get everything into position. It doesn't always work, but worth a try if you make a mistake and drop the shaft.

[alpinegreenneon]

For those that did not make a mental note of how the atx filter and gasket are installed, these should save you some time:

[shimaze]

To adjust the low / reverse band, how can you get to the nut & bolt with a torque wrench? There really is no such thing a torque wrench, but there is a torque ratchet! My point being is how can you get a socket & ratchet on it? I spent a $100 on a special inch pound 1/4 inch torque wrench!





My special inch pound 1/4 inch torque wrench. It is a CDI Consolidated Devices dial torque wrench

[shimaze]

How do you get the shift (with the kickdown shaft still in it) out of the valve body? I can not get the two shafts to move independent of each other. I need to get it apart from the calve body so that I can use a little heat & some force to get the two shafts apart from each other. Common sense dictates that it would not be wise to try to do this while still on the valve body!

Thanks, Shimaze

[chazr]

Almost every ATX 1st Gen Neon eventually has some or all of these symptoms:
1. It seems to take a higher speed before it shifts to the next gear and the shifts seem harsh.
2. You notice higher than usual RPMs for any given speed.
3. If you floor the gas pedal, it shifts itself into neutral.

The cause is that the kickdown lever/shaft has rusted to the shifter lever/shaft. It may be only sometimes or it may be every time you accelerate depending on how much corrosion there is. Over time, the shaft within a shaft will corrode to the point that the shafts are no longer independent of each other.

The kickdown is supposed to determine how much throttle pressure there is so that the transaxle can correctly shift at the appropriate rpm or even downshift when necessary. If you accelerate gently, the shift points will occur at fairly low speeds. If you aggressively accelerate, the shift points occur at higher rpms.

The solution is to free up the kickdown shaft from the shifter shaft. This requires some dis-assembly. This is something almost anyone can do with some very basic tools. The first step is to remove the battery and battery tray to gain access to the top of the transaxle. While it is possible to just free up the kickdown lever with some rust penetrating oil without any further dis-assembly, most of the time, it will be easier to take a few things apart for better access. Use a 10 mm socket to loosen and remove the kickdown lever and the shifter lever clamp bolts. Use penetrating oil if necessary. You may need to hold the 13 mm square nut with a wrench. Use a large flat head screwdriver in the groove to gently spread the lever clamps. Both levers should be removed before proceding to the next step. Wipe up the rust and you will be able to see a C-clip on the smaller diameter shaft. Pry that off with a small screwdriver and then remove the washer under the C-clip. Do not remove the C-clip until both the kickdown and shifter levers have been removed. Be careful not to lose the C-clip. You should now have removed these 3 fasteners:

I recently bought a 98' Highline sohc with 100k on the odo for $650.
It had no power AT ALL uphill.
Snooping around on google brought me to this exact page and was the help I needed and it worked. Thank you!
This was the EXACT fix for it.

I made an account here just to thank you for the info.

[sandstone]

Awesome! Welcome aboard !

[alpinegreenneon]

The gearshift cable adjustment:

[Bigcuba]

I just bought a 98 Plymouth espresso. When I floor the gas pedal it accelerates slowly. Would the throttle cable adjustment most likely apply to this?