Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

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JeffB#2
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Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:40 pm

.

$45 including shipping to any US address. Send me a PM for PayPal instructions until I get it added to our shopping cart.


This removes the power brake booster to jettison some weight and free up some room under the hood. I have three sitting here now almost ready to go, I will have more by the weekend. Quality metric 8mm grade 10.9 flat head screws so you can reuse your stock nuts on both the master cylinder and inside the car at the pedal assembly. 1/2" thick 6061 aluminum. The bolts are threaded into the plate so they stay in place on their own. You have two choices for the push rod. You can modify a stock push rod to add an adjuster to the end of it. The stock one will not work "as is". Ted has a great shot of what he did here - pic Or, look online for a variety of aftermarket adjustable length kits including a Mopar Performance piece. Search for "brake push rod" at Google or wherever.


Image



Older one-off version that took two people to install


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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by SRTMiniMe » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:06 pm

Hey Jeff, can you elaborate on the performance benefits of this besides weight savings? How is the pedal feel? Does it require a larger master?

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:18 pm

It's roughly the same as any other vehicle that has manual brakes. It is NOT the same as trying to push the pedal on a power brake car that is turned "off" with no vacuum in the booster. That takes a lot more effort.

I've had cars in the distant past with manual brakes. It can take a little more effort and that's why they invented "power" brakes. At one time they were called, among other things, vacuum-assist brakes.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

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'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
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'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by rt1092 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:09 pm

Pm sent.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by mmench » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:42 pm

NICE, will be sending some paypal in the AM
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by NickKo » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:34 pm

Jeff, just curious..... Do you see any reason these won't work on a 2nd gen as well ??


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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:35 pm

Just going off memory since I'm too lazy to go uncover the ACR in the garage.....

Different master cylinder design. Different size casting coming thru the plate, different bolt pattern to hold the master cylinder to the plate. I can do that too if needed. Might be hard to fill the reservoir with it tucked way underneath the cowl though.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by NickKo » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:33 pm

JeffB#2 wrote:Just going off memory since I'm too lazy to go uncover the ACR in the garage.....

Different master cylinder design. Different size casting coming thru the plate, different bolt pattern to hold the master cylinder to the plate. I can do that too if needed. Might be hard to fill the reservoir with it tucked way underneath the cowl though.
No worries..... I wouldn't tool up one of those just yet, unless you know of any other enterprising 2nd gen folks who want to do this.

I am in the process of rebuilding the brake system on the 2000 Neon, but I've already installed a new master.
I could remove it, and get rid of the booster, but since the booster ain't broke, I may as well not 'fix' it at this time.
If I change my mind (or I turn out with a bad booster), I'd just as soon get rid of it.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 52mm TB; Maddog STS
-1999 4-dr DOHC ATX= went to car heaven (junkyard)
-2000 Ply.LX with MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; R/T muffler + Header
-2001 Ddg.ES ATX = UDP, Magnum Header; + Syked PCM 'pending'

-1971 Ply.Scamp SL6cyl. ('Horse Traded' away)
-1968 Chry.300 w/440 V8 (sold)
"MoPar or No Car"

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm

A few shipped, I have four more ready to go. PM for payment details.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
'16 Plum Crazy Hellcat Charger [email protected]

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by 1972demon » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:51 am

Have any of these left ? Yes i know this is old

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:51 am

I think I have one left, I will look later today. I can probably get a few more done later this week if I can squeeze it in.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
'16 Plum Crazy Hellcat Charger [email protected]

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:08 pm

I do not have any more left right now. I had planned to do some just before Christmas but it never happened. I will have more in a few weeks, just as soon as I can get some done. The picture above is an old one for Tony. The new ones use metric flat head bolts, use your old nuts when you take the booster out. They look like this now:


Image
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
'16 Plum Crazy Hellcat Charger [email protected]

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Jaxmadine » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:15 pm

Should the dampners be removed when installing?

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:04 pm

What dampeners?

I have one more right now ready to ship as of 2-10-12. I will have another half dozen next week. You can order on our web page.

When you get ready to fab a push rod, shoot for 6" long and allow for some adjustment longer and shorter. Measure from the center of the hole in the end of the rod at the brake pedal to the tip of the adjuster where it seats into the rear of the master cylinder.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
'16 Plum Crazy Hellcat Charger [email protected]

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Jaxmadine » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:30 pm

The dampners that screw straight into the master cylinder. The big cylinder things.

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by jimbo in MI » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Jaxmadine wrote:The dampners that screw straight into the master cylinder. The big cylinder things.
You mean the proportioning valves? The valves that control rear wheel lockup?

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Jaxmadine » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:41 am

If that's what dodge calls them, thn ye nissan calls them dampners, which is how they work.

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Beater Status » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:42 am

Does anyone know how much the booster weighs?

Any of these left Jeff?
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by JeffB#2 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:03 am

I don't have a booster laying around to weigh right now.

I have one plate here on the shelf now.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
'16 Plum Crazy Hellcat Charger [email protected]

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Beater Status » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:49 pm

I'm still on the fence. Need to fab a rod solution first. Just waiting on my welder and some material.

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by UptownSport » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:14 am

Booster is 5lbs, + 1/2 lb the vac line & fittings from manifold.

Recall, ALL vehicles were manual at one time.
During many of your's lifetimes, they were still making V-8 cars with manual brakes.

Pedal effort increases with tire (OD) size.

I made my own plate years ago, but it's very difficult to service as I have to go from inside to out to loosen / tighten each fastener.
Makes a simple job hard.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Beater Status » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:49 am

Im thinking this is more suited to drag cars? im building a track star.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by chipdogg » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:08 am

Yeah more for drag cars. Where you only have to hit the brakes once and the goal is to slow down enough to turn onto the return road. Pedal effort will be higher, or more pedal travel if you move the mounting point of the rod. Not sure if I'd wanna try it on a circle track or autocross car.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Jaxmadine » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:30 pm

you could always play with the piston size to offset the lack of power assist. i think i read that mustang master cylinder works with min mods? and its a bit larger.

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by NeverDeadRacing » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:42 pm

chipdogg wrote:Yeah more for drag cars. Where you only have to hit the brakes once and the goal is to slow down enough to turn onto the return road. Pedal effort will be higher, or more pedal travel if you move the mounting point of the rod. Not sure if I'd wanna try it on a circle track or autocross car.
I've ran power, unhooked booster, and a booster emliminator plate. I kept locking the brakes up too easy with power. Had too "soft" of a pedal with just the booster (everything flexing). I won't have another circle track Neon with the booster on!! It gives a very "real" feeling to the brake pedal. Then again I'm a 280 pound guy who has NO trouble pressing the pedal. If a guy has the leg for it I recommend it in a circle track car. Plus the room it gives is awesome!

I made my own plate out of some 1/8in ballistic steel. Used the stock studs out of the booster and tack welded em on. Not NEARLY as pretty but it's free and elminated the problem of two bolts. I gutted the stock rod, cut out a good chunk and welded it back together.

I would buy a plate from Jeff next time. Takes forever to drill the ballistic steel :grin:
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by jimbo in MI » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:14 am

Jaxmadine wrote:you could always play with the piston size to offset the lack of power assist. i think i read that mustang master cylinder works with min mods? and its a bit larger.
Larger is the wrong way. To make more pressure you want a smaller piston.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by Jaxmadine » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:44 am

Bigger piston at the master will make less effort on the driver to push the brakes, but longer pedal travel.

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by jimbo in MI » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:45 am

Jaxmadine wrote:Bigger piston at the master will make less effort on the driver to push the brakes, but longer pedal travel.
You have that backwards.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by jimbo in MI » Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:52 am

http://www.hotrodheaven.com/tech/brakes/
To figure how much pressure your master cylinder is putting out:
C = pedal ratio
D = pounds of pressure apply by your foot
E = area of you master cylinder
F = pounds of pressure out of the master cylinder
C X D /(divided by) E = F

Example: If you have a 1" master cylinder the area equals 1/2" x 1/2" x 3.14 = 0.785 Square Inches. So, 100 pounds (of applied foot pressure) X 6 (pedal ratio) divided by 0.785 = 764 pounds of pressure.
If you have a 1-1/8" master cylinder, 100 psi X 6 (pedal ratio) divided by 0.9935 = 604 pounds of pressure.

Here is some info on master cylinder with "constant" of 6 to 1 pedal ratio and 100 psi being applied.
3/4" master cylinder = 1359 psi
13/16" master cylinder = 1158 psi
7/8" master cylinder = 998 psi
15/16" master cylinder = 870 psi
1" master cylinder = 764 psi
1-1/8" master cylinder = 603 psi
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niceguy wrote:Jerk
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by HarvestMoon » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:44 am

Is this the same thing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274381175656

What really does it do???

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by occasional demons » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:35 pm

HarvestMoon wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:44 am Is this the same thing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274381175656

What really does it do???
eBay post wrote:What it does: Save weight, under hood space, and improves brake feel
But like said, "Race Only"

The brake plumbing is also modified, the the safety features incorporated if a line fails won't be there. It is basically going back to 1970's/older brake technology. The only step up is it will retain either front or back brakes, and not lose all 4 corners like the mid sixties and older cars.

I doubt is is street legal. You could be open to all sorts of liabilities if you crashed because of this modification on a public street. A diet would net safer/better weight savings, unless you are already underweight. In that case, toss some of the unneeded stuff in your trunk.

Most non power assist brakes were a 4 drum brake set up, but IIRC, there were a few non power Disc/Drum options towards the end of manual brakes being available.

So this might require slightly more effort to stop the car than a normally designed manual set up. You can go with a smaller bore master to gain "leverage" but just like a longer stick, you need more pedal travel.
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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by HarvestMoon » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:57 pm

Thanks!

I asked the guy and he replied, but briefly. He said he used the stock master cylinder, so front/rear separate safety brakes are still there- Not affected.
That you didn't even have to break the lines- the power booster is just gone.
It ended up being 'just normal' to him to drive- I guess he just got used to it.
He put 'Race only' in there so people that didn't know about it wouldn't buy it .
A Neon is a really small car, Grandma's early 60's dart with a 273 V8 had manual brakes. It's been years, but I don't remember anything odd
He was rather polite, but in sum said he'd really rather have it go to someone who would appreciate it.

I guess we get attached to our things !!!

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by occasional demons » Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:20 pm

Hmmm, I was basing my answer off of Jeff B's picture in the first post, where the master cylinder only has two outlets vs the neon's 4 outlets.

Perhaps he went with the two oulet to cut down on the complexity/amount of brake tubing.

AFAIK, all stock neon MC's had 4 outlets, so if the eBay seller was using the factory set up, then it would basically have DOT approved parts, sans the booster.

I don't know that I would really want this for a daily driver though.

I guess having learned to drive with a 4 wheel drum manual brake set up on a full size car, and seeing the difference modern brakes make, in comparison, I couldn't go back. For me, stopping power > acceleration. I guess learning on a vehicle with marginal braking power, gives you a better appreciation for good brakes. :lol:


For some folks, it might be worth the $86.20 buy it now price, for a piece of "neon nostalgia", but unless you seen this thread, or were a die hard neon fan/racer, you probably wouldn't know what you were looking at. If it had been something factory made, with a Mopar logo, it would certainly have that much value, much more to the right person.
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desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by HarvestMoon » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:20 am

Yes, thanks. I guess that answers it. I'm just curious about all of those parts, and I really value simplicity by nature

I'm seeing $56

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274381175656

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Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by occasional demons » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:22 am

I was going off the "Buy it now" price. But given the lack of bids, you could probably get it for the starting bid.

I seen some other versions of this for less, but they don't include the push rod ready to go.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

HarvestMoon
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Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:22 pm

Re: Power Brake Booster eliminator plate

Post by HarvestMoon » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:34 am

Hey! Right in this very thread! $45 new.
Sweet.
But you are correct, sir, the thing isn't there- The push rod

Seems that must be necessary.

https://www.boogerbushings.com/

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