Machine shop tampa Fl

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2005blkneon
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Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:42 am

Does anyone know of a good machine shop around Tampa in like Pinellas, Hillsborough or Pasco county?

Preferably, Pasco county. Mainly at this time believe I need head work such as of course verifying the head isn't warped and resurfacing the gasket surfaces but may need more.

Honestly not sure what to expect price-wise but I do want to have the job done right.


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alpinegreenneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by alpinegreenneon » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:56 am

Some auto parts stores like NAPA may have a machine shop and will be the lowest cost. A NAPA about 50 miles from me charged me $60. You may want to call around. If you pull the valves, springs, etc, it makes it easier for them and in the end, better for you. Look into a valve lapping tool and lapping compound. New valve stem seals as well.
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2005blkneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:59 am

alpinegreenneon wrote:Some auto parts stores like NAPA may have a machine shop and will be the lowest cost. A NAPA about 50 miles from me charged me $60. You may want to call around. If you pull the valves, springs, etc, it makes it easier for them and in the end, better for you. Look into a valve lapping tool and lapping compound. New valve stem seals as well.
How hard is lapping valves and doest this require a special valve spring compressor


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alpinegreenneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by alpinegreenneon » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:31 pm

Plenty of You tube videos for lapping valves. The tool for compressing valves is less than having a machine shop do it for you. OTC 4572 is about $50 shipped and when you are done with it you can sell it. Do some googling.
https://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-4572.aspx
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98 Sport Coupe DOHC Alpine Green ATX stock
98 Sport Coupe DOHC Amethyst ATX to MTX swap
95 NYG ACR Coupe (restored)
03 Dakota QC 4.7 4x4 ATX Patriot Blue stock (Sold)
16 Dart SE 2.0L Laser Blue Pearl stock
16 Dart SXT 2.0L TorRed stock
18 Ram 1500 standard cab 3.6L Delmonico Red stock

2005blkneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:08 pm

alpinegreenneon wrote:Plenty of You tube videos for lapping valves. The tool for compressing valves is less than having a machine shop do it for you. OTC 4572 is about $50 shipped and when you are done with it you can sell it. Do some googling.
https://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-4572.aspx
Ok perfect and how do I tell if the valves, springs, retainers, rockers are reusable?

Does a head always need valve seats and guides?


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alpinegreenneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by alpinegreenneon » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:54 pm

I have never had to replace guides or seats on the Neons I have done. Lapping should be all it needs unless you see something obvious.
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98 Sport Coupe DOHC Alpine Green ATX stock
98 Sport Coupe DOHC Amethyst ATX to MTX swap
95 NYG ACR Coupe (restored)
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16 Dart SE 2.0L Laser Blue Pearl stock
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occasional demons
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:09 pm

I had to replace the exhaust guides in my '01 SOHC, but that may have been due to the amount of carbon that was hanging onto the valves, adding weight, and possibly smacking against the valve bowls.

The guides are something that an experienced machine shop will have to do, if needed. I have heard of shops messing up neon heads replacing them, but I didn't have any problems with mine.

At the time, the cost of having the 8 guides replaced, a valve face and seats reground, and a clean up pass on the gasket surface, I could have gotten a reman head or decent JY head for less money. But then I got well over 100,000 miles out of that head after the work was done, and AFAIK, it is still going, as the car I later put it on has since been sold. So I got my money's worth out of it.
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desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:05 pm

occasional demons wrote:I had to replace the exhaust guides in my '01 SOHC, but that may have been due to the amount of carbon that was hanging onto the valves, adding weight, and possibly smacking against the valve bowls.

The guides are something that an experienced machine shop will have to do, if needed. I have heard of shops messing up neon heads replacing them, but I didn't have any problems with mine.

At the time, the cost of having the 8 guides replaced, a valve face and seats reground, and a clean up pass on the gasket surface, I could have gotten a reman head or decent JY head for less money. But then I got well over 100,000 miles out of that head after the work was done, and AFAIK, it is still going, as the car I later put it on has since been sold. So I got my money's worth out of it.
Wow scary stuff I hope my machine work doesn’t cost as much as a reman head. I’m probably just pulling the whole motor and trans and will do the motor work on the stand. With it tore that far down should I do bottom end gaskets or gaskets and bearings? Or add in rings?

Would the block always have to head to the machine shop for work to do bearings and rings?


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occasional demons
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:45 am

As long as the cylinder walls are decent, you could get a hone, watch some Youtube videos on honing, and do the rings yourself. Bearings are pretty easy, again as long as there is no abnormal wear on the crank journals.

If the bearings look to be in nice shape, and there wasn't any knocking, then I would leave well enough alone. They have a copper layer under the aluminum/babbitt, so if the copper is showing, then I would replace them. And if you don't have any experience with measuring crank journals, I would take it to a shop.

My 2.0 with 210,000 miles was still very quiet, so I am hoping the bottom end is still in good shape. The rings are toast, but the rotating assy seemed to be in nice shape. With the new Magnum head, the engine only had the sound of the injectors clicking at idle. With the stock muffler, you had to look at the tach to know if it started half the time.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:59 am

occasional demons wrote:As long as the cylinder walls are decent, you could get a hone, watch some Youtube videos on honing, and do the rings yourself. Bearings are pretty easy, again as long as there is no abnormal wear on the crank journals.

If the bearings look to be in nice shape, and there wasn't any knocking, then I would leave well enough alone. They have a copper layer under the aluminum/babbitt, so if the copper is showing, then I would replace them. And if you don't have any experience with measuring crank journals, I would take it to a shop.

My 2.0 with 210,000 miles was still very quiet, so I am hoping the bottom end is still in good shape. The rings are toast, but the rotating assy seemed to be in nice shape. With the new Magnum head, the engine only had the sound of the injectors clicking at idle. With the stock muffler, you had to look at the tach to know if it started half the time.
No knocking and the motor to my knowledge only has 160k and based on my compression test pre head gasket I’d assume the rings are ok I’m pulling the motor and trans and going to do the head gasket on my engine stand so I assume it would be a good idea to pop the pan and essentially I’m just looking to see if the main bearings show copper? Do I have to pull the main caps or should I be able to see. I’m just figuring out how far I should take this since I have a bit of money for the moment and the motor will be out it has to have a head gasket and I’m fairly certain a rear main seal.

Also the block girdle piece not quite sure what it’s called have you ever seen it leaking before?


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occasional demons
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:15 am

The rod bolts/caps will need to be removed to see the bearings. The girdle is the main cap for the main bearings. You need the right kind of sealant to seal it to the block. The timing sprocket and oil pump need to be removed to remove the girdle, IIRC.

It shouldn't leak, unless someone has removed it in the past.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:02 am

occasional demons wrote:The rod bolts/caps will need to be removed to see the bearings. The girdle is the main cap for the main bearings. You need the right kind of sealant to seal it to the block. The timing sprocket and oil pump need to be removed to remove the girdle, IIRC.

It shouldn't leak, unless someone has removed it in the past.
So would I need to also remove the girdle to check the main bearings? I’ve never messed with a bottom end before so I’m just a bit hesitant but at the same time the block is gonna be on an engine stand with the head off likely the oil pan off. The rear main is coming out so I’m just wondering since it’s almost nothing at that point to get the rotating assembly out if I should do rings and bearings and hone the block if there would be any advantage and how easily I could screw it up because finesse is not my strong suit I’m a bit of a bull in a china shop.

I also wouldn’t be opposed to doing small performance upgrades while I am in there provided they don’t effect reliability and don’t require a new tune or computer I’d assume any cam or higher compression pistons would require a tune. And likely wouldn’t be worth the tiny gain in performance.

I’m also hesitant to get that far in and not do the oil pump though others have advised it shouldn’t really be necessary though of course there is always that issue of the since I’m in there bug that suddenly has you replacing everything or maybe I’m the only one who falls victim to that.


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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:38 am

For the cost you would have, and if it was fine before, you would get a better bang for the buck finding a lower mileage 2003 to 2010 PT Cruiser 2.4, and doing a swap. This is only sticking with an N/A set up.

The only higher compression pistons you could run without breaking the bank are 2.0 DOHC, which would require a complete tear down, honing or boring the cylinders, depending on if you go stock or oversize bore, and the cylinders would need honed to each piston for the best results. The wrist pins will need pressed out and back in to swap pistons. This will bump your 2.0 from 9.3 to 10.3:1. But with the stock PCM, you really won't see a big gain from just that.

Going to a 2.4 will only require some 24lb injectors, and the PT hardware to bolt it into your car. The stock PCM will run it.

If you can find a nice low mileage 2.4, for a reasonable price, it will likely be less expense than having your 2.0 rebuilt professionally, and give you 150 to 160 hp, and a lot more low end torque.

Otherwise, I would leave the bottom end alone, just replace the rear main, and fix the head issues.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by alpinegreenneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:45 am

occasional demons wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:38 am
Otherwise, I would leave the bottom end alone, just replace the rear main, and fix the head issues.
x2
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98 Sport Coupe DOHC Alpine Green ATX stock
98 Sport Coupe DOHC Amethyst ATX to MTX swap
95 NYG ACR Coupe (restored)
03 Dakota QC 4.7 4x4 ATX Patriot Blue stock (Sold)
16 Dart SE 2.0L Laser Blue Pearl stock
16 Dart SXT 2.0L TorRed stock
18 Ram 1500 standard cab 3.6L Delmonico Red stock

2005blkneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:43 am

alpinegreenneon wrote:
occasional demons wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:38 am
Otherwise, I would leave the bottom end alone, just replace the rear main, and fix the head issues.
x2
The 2.4l swap sounds very interesting I never even considered the idea of just swapping honestly. So it would be a direct swap for the most part and would it bolt to my I believe it’s t-350 MTX with no issues? And my SOHC computer would run it?


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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:17 pm

2005blkneon wrote:
alpinegreenneon wrote:
occasional demons wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:38 am
Otherwise, I would leave the bottom end alone, just replace the rear main, and fix the head issues.
x2
The 2.4l swap sounds very interesting I never even considered the idea of just swapping honestly. So it would be a direct swap for the most part and would it bolt to my I believe it’s t-350 MTX with no issues? And my SOHC computer would run it?


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Found a good deal on an 01 pt motor tried to do searches on the forum I must not be very good at it so didn’t get much also looked at the engine swap forum and man is it terribly organized and essentially everything I found was about 1st gen and seems every person with a 03-05 neon wants to talk about srt4 swap instead of NA 2.4 which I mean would be cool and all but based on my reading the srt is a whole lot more work.

Based on what I found between here and another forum it’s this simple I think anyway.

Pt motor
Either DOHC IM or SRT
My MTX bolts up
I think I need a new PS pump? Pt?
Pt or dohc exhaust mani
Do my motor mounts and torque struts mount?
From what I read factory PT injectors with my stock FPR will be fine
My stock alternator.
Alternator bracket from the 2.4
Ps bracket from the 2.4
If the motor is 03-10 pt my wiring harness pcm everything will be just fine.

Anything else I need to know for the list?


Also based on reading it seems technically the 01 pt motor I found if it’s a good enough deal will work with my wiring pcm and everything like the 03-05 only difference is the cam signal? So I’d either have to modify and rotate them or swap the wires on the coil pack is that right?

Thanks there is such a cluster about the info.


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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:28 pm

You need an '03 through '10 motor period. You cannot make an '02 older work in your car without either swapping in an '02 older 2gn PCM and complete wiring, or Mega Squirt/other stand alone engine management. May as well do an SRT swap for the hassle.

The PT is the easiest source to make it as simple and painless as possible. Being NGC ('03 to '05 neon, and '03 to 2010 PT), there is no need to swap the injector wiring or rotate the cam magnet. The NGC 2.0 and 2.4 cranks are phased the same. In the SBEC ('02 older) the cranks are phased 180º from each other, thus the cam magnet needs rotated 90º.

2003 to 2005 neons are that much simpler to do the 2.4 swap. It is nearly plug and play, as far as wiring. You still need to extend the coolant sensor wires, so they reach the thermostat housing.

So no matter how good of a deal that '01 is, it will be a nightmare for you. For someone with an '02/older, it would be possibly worthwhile.

If you can get a PT engine with everything bolted on, AFAIK, the only thing you cannot use is the intake manifold.

You will need to get a 1gn DOHC IM, and drill the flange to match the newer bolt pattern. This is the only part that can be a PITA for a 2gn swap. The 90º upward bend will need cut off, and a tube welded in to match up to your 2gn TB set up. You can buy the "No 90 Intake" lower half here: https://www.modernperformance.com/produ ... e-manifold


2.0 DOHC manifolds can be had at a reasonable price, there are usually a few of them lying around from people that have done SRT swaps.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:50 pm

occasional demons wrote:You need an '03 through '10 motor period. You cannot make an '02 older work in your car without either swapping in an '02 older 2gn PCM and complete wiring, or Mega Squirt/other stand alone engine management. May as well do an SRT swap for the hassle.

The PT is the easiest source to make it as simple and painless as possible. Being NGC ('03 to '05 neon, and '03 to 2010 PT), there is no need to swap the injector wiring or rotate the cam magnet. The NGC 2.0 and 2.4 cranks are phased the same. In the SBEC ('02 older) the cranks are phased 180º from each other, thus the cam magnet needs rotated 90º.

2003 to 2005 neons are that much simpler to do the 2.4 swap. It is nearly plug and play, as far as wiring. You still need to extend the coolant sensor wires, so they reach the thermostat housing.

So no matter how good of a deal that '01 is, it will be a nightmare for you. For someone with an '02/older, it would be possibly worthwhile.

If you can get a PT engine with everything bolted on, AFAIK, the only thing you cannot use is the intake manifold.

You will need to get a 1gn DOHC IM, and drill the flange to match the newer bolt pattern. This is the only part that can be a PITA for a 2gn swap. The 90º upward bend will need cut off, and a tube welded in to match up to your 2gn TB set up. You can buy the "No 90 Intake" lower half here: https://www.modernperformance.com/produ ... e-manifold


2.0 DOHC manifolds can be had at a reasonable price, there are usually a few of them lying around from people that have done SRT swaps.
Got it so far a 2.4 swap sounds way better than the huge pain associated with my head gasket rear main etc provided I get one at the right price.

Thanks and is the 1gn dohc manifold aluminum?


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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:53 pm

2005blkneon wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:50 pm is the 1gn dohc manifold aluminum?
Yes.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

2005blkneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:54 pm

occasional demons wrote:
2005blkneon wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:50 pm is the 1gn dohc manifold aluminum?
Yes.
It’s tempting for sure now I just have to figure out cost wise if I can do it cheaply and as reliably as the sohc if I just did the work to it.


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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:25 pm

Well I have possible 2003 pt gt MTX complete vehicle with a blown up MTX so based on everything I’ve read if I pick it up I’d essentially just swap everything over throw my neon MTX on it and go in my 05 neon of course making sure to use all the 03 pt SKIM parts am I right?


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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by occasional demons » Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:05 am

2005blkneon wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:25 pm Well I have possible 2003 pt gt MTX complete vehicle with a blown up MTX so based on everything I’ve read if I pick it up I’d essentially just swap everything over throw my neon MTX on it and go in my 05 neon of course making sure to use all the 03 pt SKIM parts am I right?


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Pretty much. AFAIK, the PCM should work in a neon.

But PT GT would/should be boosted. If so, that gets you into the SRT swap category, so you'll need to research the swap threads both here and on 2gn.org for all those little details.
- Bill

desmodromic wrote:You have to remember what's important here, while they make New humans everyday, they'll never make another Neon.
Skellibert wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:42 amThis is a daily by the way, not a track car or fun buggy.

2005blkneon
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Re: Machine shop tampa Fl

Post by 2005blkneon » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:44 am

occasional demons wrote:
2005blkneon wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:25 pm Well I have possible 2003 pt gt MTX complete vehicle with a blown up MTX so based on everything I’ve read if I pick it up I’d essentially just swap everything over throw my neon MTX on it and go in my 05 neon of course making sure to use all the 03 pt SKIM parts am I right?


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Pretty much. AFAIK, the PCM should work in a neon.

But PT GT would/should be boosted. If so, that gets you into the SRT swap category, so you'll need to research the swap threads both here and on 2gn.org for all those little details.
Ok thanks I tried but I’ll have to look closer because I had assumed since I had a complete vehicle and both were MTX and as far as I know the neon trans bolt up it would be as simple as swap all from one onto the other minus of course the intake.


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