04 Neon won't start

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:52 am

I went to start my car after replacing alternator & belts and a faulty cam sensor (due to a code P0344). Battery had been disconnected for a day and a half. When I tried to start it just now, it just cranks, will not run. It acts like it tries to fire off, but it won't. What is wrong, and what do I do to solve this?

**edit** I hooked up my scan tool, and it pulled up P0562

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:07 pm

Hello, anyone??

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 pm

P0562 Dodge Description
The battery supplies electricity to the Engine Control Module (ECM) even when the ignition switch is OFF. This electricity allows the ECM to store data such as Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) history, freeze frame data, fuel trim values and other data. If the battery voltage falls below a minimum level, the ECM will conclude that there is a fault in the power supply circuit. The next time the engine starts, the ECM will turn on the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) and a DTC will be set.

Possibly due to low voltage during the no start cranking issue.

Try unplugging the cam sensor, and see if it starts in limp mode.

The best cam sensors to get are ones from the dealer, or used mopar ones from the junk yard.

The new dealer ones are expensive, but there is a reason...

You didn't have the coil connector disconnected for some reason did you? the coil and CPS connectors will plug into either. The coil connector has the orange/green center wire.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:48 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 pm
P0562 Dodge Description
The battery supplies electricity to the Engine Control Module (ECM) even when the ignition switch is OFF. This electricity allows the ECM to store data such as Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) history, freeze frame data, fuel trim values and other data. If the battery voltage falls below a minimum level, the ECM will conclude that there is a fault in the power supply circuit. The next time the engine starts, the ECM will turn on the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) and a DTC will be set.
Possibly due to low voltage during the no start cranking issue.

Try unplugging the cam sensor, and see if it starts in limp mode.

The best cam sensors to get are ones from the dealer, or used mopar ones from the junk yard.

The new dealer ones are expensive, but there is a reason...

You didn't have the coil connector disconnected for some reason did you? the coil and CPS connectors will plug into either. The coil connector has the orange/green center wire.

I never touched the coil connector, Battery was completely disconnected for about 48 hours before I tried starting it. It was low already as I drove it a couple miles from where I got it, to my place, with the defective alternator. Should I also remove the cam sensor magnet and inspect it?? If so, what type of socket do I need for that?

neoncrazy101 · Post by **neoncrazy101** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:42 am

charge battery. What brand cam sensor did you get? Mopar or store bought? I would also just disconnect the cam sensor to see if it starts before taking the time to inspect the magnet. I know its simple but its even simpler to disconnect it

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:38 am

neoncrazy101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:42 am charge battery. What brand cam sensor did you get? Mopar or store bought? I would also just disconnect the cam sensor to see if it starts before taking the time to inspect the magnet. I know its simple but its even simpler to disconnect it

Was a NAPA brand sensor, I have pretty good luck with their stuff. I'll charge the battery up and see. Maybe the PCM has to re learn things again? If it starts with the cam sensor plug disconnected, can it be driven temporarily like that?? As I mentioned, it did run, but I had to replace a non functioning alternator, the cam sensor replacement was due to a P0344 code

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:15 am

P0344 can also be caused by a weak battery.

Also, how many miles are on the timing belt?

Have you checked to see if the cam is actually still turning?

If the belt snapped, you will get camshaft sensor codes as a result, as the magnet is not spinning, resulting in signal loss.

If the belt has slipped a lot, or broke, it would be semi obvious as the sound it makes during cranking will be different.
Just another possibility, especially if the engine has higher miles. If the belt is original, it is 15 years old, which could have an impact on it's life expectancy. Recommended replacement mileage is 105,000 miles. They have been known to fail sooner, given the age of these cars.

If the belt checks okay (for now), try charging the battery, and replacing the sensor with the one it previously ran with. also clean the gray lines from the magnet. That is a build up of metal on the magnet's poles. How much it affects the signal quality, I don't know, but it can't be helping.

And never crank the engine without the sensor in place. it keeps the camshaft in position. You can get a broken cam without it there.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:39 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:15 am P0344 can also be caused by a weak battery.

Also, how many miles are on the timing belt?

Have you checked to see if the cam is actually still turning?

If the belt snapped, you will get camshaft sensor codes as a result, as the magnet is not spinning, resulting in signal loss.

If the belt has slipped a lot, or broke, it would be semi obvious as the sound it makes during cranking will be different.
Just another possibility, especially if the engine has higher miles. If the belt is original, it is 15 years old, which could have an impact on it's life expectancy. Recommended replacement mileage is 105,000 miles. They have been known to fail sooner, given the age of these cars.

If the belt checks okay (for now), try charging the battery, and replacing the sensor with the one it previously ran with. also clean the gray lines from the magnet. That is a build up of metal on the magnet's poles. How much it affects the signal quality, I don't know, but it can't be helping.

And never crank the engine without the sensor in place. it keeps the camshaft in position. You can get a broken cam without it there.

Belt couldn't have snapped as I only drove it maybe 2 miles to my apartment. I parked it in my driveway and have not driven it since then as I had to replace the alternator.I started it the next morning and it fired up. It's cranking normally as well, just not starting now

bust0023 · Post by **bust0023** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:14 pm

neoncrazy101 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:42 am I would also just disconnect the cam sensor to see if it starts before taking the time to inspect the magnet.

I would do this. Every long-time neon owner has played the cam sensor game. I've got a small bucket of 6 or 8 factory ones from the junkyard. They go bad randomly, and I know I've bought at least 1 that didn't work right out of the box.

The car should run without it. My 99 and my 02 both did.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:58 pm

I checked codes just now, P0562, and P0700 are all it is showing. Has been on charger for maybe 3 hours. Another thought, The crank sensor is mounted behind the alternator, and above the oil filter. Could I have inadvertently broken the crank sensor off while I was working to get the old alternator out?

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:11 pm

It could happen.

But only on 1995 to 2002 neons.

If yours is an '04, the crank sensor should be by the starter.
The engine block and crankshaft changed in 2003.

If you physically saw the crank sensor in that location, your neon is not an '04.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:17 pm

It's an 04, built 11/03. How long should I let the battery charge? Can't leave it on overnight as heavy rain is expected here for the next 2 days. I got that sensor location from an online search. Only codes are the P0562 & P0700

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:35 pm

12 hours should be adequate, especially if the battery wasn't totally dead. 8 hours is probably enough.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:55 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:35 pm 12 hours should be adequate, especially if the battery wasn't totally dead. 8 hours is probably enough.

I had it on today about 6 hours, but had to take it off due to the rain that is coming later this evening. I unplugged the cam sensor and tried it, just cranks, but it acts like it tries to run if I hold the gas pedal to the floor. I just don't know what's going on here, I did everything correctly

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:00 pm

Holding the pedal to the floor while cranking shuts off the injectors. It's called "Clear Flood Mode".

Possibly, since it seems like it is closer to firing when the pedal is pushed to the floor, it is flooded from the low voltage cranking.

You could pull the plugs and see if they are soaked. While they are out, put a screwdriver in one of the plug wire ends, and crank it to check for spark.

There is less load on the battery this way, and you have that much answered as to if it is making spark. Maybe pull the fuel pump relay to reduce any further fuel from going into the cylinders.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:42 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:00 pm Holding the pedal to the floor while cranking shuts off the injectors. It's called "Clear Flood Mode".

Possibly, since it seems like it is closer to firing when the pedal is pushed to the floor, it is flooded from the low voltage cranking.

You could pull the plugs and see if they are soaked. While they are out, put a screwdriver in one of the plug wire ends, and crank it to check for spark.

There is less load on the battery this way, and you have that much answered as to if it is making spark. Maybe pull the fuel pump relay to reduce any further fuel from going into the cylinders.

There was one point where it actually tried to run for about 30 seconds. Looks like the previous owner put a new coil pack and wires, but I can pull the plugs and see how they look. and check for spark. What plug is the best for the '04 2.0 engine?

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:24 pm

I pulled a plug, and sure enough it was soaked with gas. The plug was an Autolite platinum # AP 3923

neoncrazy101 · Post by **neoncrazy101** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:52 am

Coppers. I use Champion coppers. Platinum plugs have been known to cause issues with our Neons.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:06 pm

Bought a set of the correct Champions and installed them. Car fired right up, but I still have the charge light coming on after about a minute. I replaced the one on the car with a good used one, but the light still comes on. Any idea what the problem is?

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:00 pm

I assume, that once power was restored to the PCM, that it will have to "re learn" the settings it had before power was disconnected?

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:47 pm

Grey_2004_Neon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:06 pm Bought a set of the correct Champions and installed them. Car fired right up, but I still have the charge light coming on after about a minute. I replaced the one on the car with a good used one, but the light still comes on. Any idea what the problem is?

With the engine off, is there battery voltage at the alternator stud?

There is a fusible link where the wire from the alternator stud connects to the starter stud. If that link is blown, or still making some kind of contact, you will not get any output from the alternator to the battery/PDC.

Also in 2004, it should have a sensor built into the battery blanket. If that sensor is bad, or unplugged, you will get a battery light in the cluster. Edit: it was 2003 M.Y. only.

Unplugged, it will still charge, just at a fixed default voltage, usually around 13 volts give or take. Defective, it could be anything, depending on the resistance value. I'm sure if the resistance measurement is outside an acceptable range, it would go to the default rate.

Your best bet is to get a cheap multimeter at minimum, and see what and where the voltages are. It need not be expensive to check this stuff.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:29 pm

Battery blanket? I don't see one on my '04. The light doesn't come on till after it's been running about 1 minute. I'll check for voltage at the alternator stud

Where would this battery temperature sensor be located ? I see a plug hanging behind the battery, but no sensor. Could I grab the blanket out of a Neon in a salvage yard? If so what years will work, and what all do I need to grab? Also,can I safely drive it, if I can't find the sensor/blanket right away?

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:22 am

My bad, it is 2003 that had the sensor in the blanket.

The other years (2gn) use the sensor in the elbow that goes from the inner fender to the air box. It doubles as the air inlet temp sensor and ambient air to regulate the charging voltage.

Since you don't have any codes for the intake temp, it's probably functioning/plugged in.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:51 pm

That elbow is missing on mine, was gone when I got the car. What years can I get it from? Can I drive it, the way it is now?

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:03 pm

As long as the sensor is there and connected, it will be fine.

If it is missing, along with that elbow, that could be why the battery light is on. There should be a code for it missing though.

The elbow isn't important, as far as functioning, but if the air box is there, it helps bring in cooler air from behind the fender.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... ction=view

All 2000 to 2005 neons have the elbow.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:28 pm

The sensor is there they had it stuck in behind the fender, I stuck it inside the duct at the fender. I also tested battery voltage at the battery stud at the alternator, and I have 13 volts there.

neoncrazy101 · Post by **neoncrazy101** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:22 am My bad, it is 2003 that had the sensor in the blanket.

The other years (2gn) use the sensor in the elbow that goes from the inner fender to the air box. It doubles as the air inlet temp sensor and ambient air to regulate the charging voltage.

Since you don't have any codes for the intake temp, it's probably functioning/plugged in.

its the 04 that has it actually. I have an 03 FSM and it doesn't list the battery temp sensor anywhere. My 04' had the temp sensor which I forgot to transfer to my 05 when I did the trans swapped which has caused the battery light.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:10 pm

There's a 2 wire plug coming out of a loom at the firewall, Not sure if it was for that sensor or not. asked a guy at Auto Zone, he said the sensor is in the bottom of the battery tray. My car was built 11/03.

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:25 am

It will be near the hole in the inner fender by the air box like in that video.

Battery tray is only for '95 to '99.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:50 pm

Is the 13 volts at the alternator battery stud with key off ok?

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:48 pm

This is the plug that is at the back of my '04, Is this the battery temp sensor connector? Only reaches a far as shown in the photo,so does the sensor touch the battery back here? I can get one at O'Reilly's, but where would it attach to the battery?

neoncrazy101 · Post by **neoncrazy101** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:41 pm

Here's my 04' (4/04 build).

and from a 04' FSM

Very similar to yours but different color wires it looks.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:08 pm

Ok thanks, those photos helped, now I know what to look for. If I can't find that battery surround, I guess I will have to improvise and make one. Does that sensor actually touch the battery? Oh another question, since I had the battery disconnected, do I have to drive it awhile, so the PCM can relearn it's settings etc?

Post by **NickKo** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:36 pm

Grey_2004_Neon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:08 pm Ok thanks, those photos helped, now I know what to look for. If I can't find that battery surround, I guess I will have to improvise and make one. Does that sensor actually touch the battery? Oh another question, since I had the battery disconnected, do I have to drive it awhile, so the PCM can relearn it's settings etc?

I don't think you should have to 'fabricate a blanket' for the battery, just make sure that the battery temp sensor is mounted in the vicinity of the battery.
A better solution, would be to try to find a good battery blanket, in a junkyard. ( I HAVE come across these in the junkyard before.)
Heck, if the weather wasn't so lousy (and muddy) this weekend, I would make a trip to the junkyard, myself.

- Nick

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:55 pm

NickKo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:36 pm
Grey_2004_Neon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:08 pm Ok thanks, those photos helped, now I know what to look for. If I can't find that battery surround, I guess I will have to improvise and make one. Does that sensor actually touch the battery? Oh another question, since I had the battery disconnected, do I have to drive it awhile, so the PCM can relearn it's settings etc?
I don't think you should have to 'fabricate a blanket' for the battery, just make sure that the battery temp sensor is mounted in the vicinity of the battery.
A better solution, would be to try to find a good battery blanket, in a junkyard. ( I HAVE come across these in the junkyard before.)
Heck, if the weather wasn't so lousy (and muddy) this weekend, I would make a trip to the junkyard, myself.

- Nick

If I can't find that blanket thing, I'l figure out a way to affix the sensor so it's touching the case of the battery, at least if it's against it, it should work

occasional demons · Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:42 am

Red and black wires probably are not for the battery sensor. I also doubt it is a left over for a hood light. That was only a 2000 model year thing, and even my '01 does not have a factory connector. I had to fab that part up.

They kept the wire colors very consistent. The wiring schematic shows Pink/Yellow, and Brown/Yellow, being this was a 1 or two model year thing, I don't see them mixing it up a whole lot. They wouldn't make two separate engine bay harnesses, being as cheap as they were.

My guess is if you cannot find a connector with those wire colors, your car did not come with the battery sensor. And it need not touch the battery.

Neoncrazy, if you can post up a pic of the battery sensor pin out, or the end of the connector, it may be obvious the red and black wired connector isn't the right connector. The one attached to that battery sensor doesn't look too close to the one Grey_2004_Neon posted.

And yes, 13 volts at the stud is good. The key position doesn't matter, that is (should be) always powered.

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:18 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:42 am Red and black wires probably are not for the battery sensor. I also doubt it is a left over for a hood light. That was only a 2000 model year thing, and even my '01 does not have a factory connector. I had to fab that part up.

They kept the wire colors very consistent. The wiring schematic shows Pink/Yellow, and Brown/Yellow, being this was a 1 or two model year thing, I don't see them mixing it up a whole lot. They wouldn't make two separate engine bay harnesses, being as cheap as they were.

My guess is if you cannot find a connector with those wire colors, your car did not come with the battery sensor. And it need not touch the battery.

Neoncrazy, if you can post up a pic of the battery sensor pin out, or the end of the connector, it may be obvious the red and black wired connector isn't the right connector. The one attached to that battery sensor doesn't look too close to the one Grey_2004_Neon posted.

And yes, 13 volts at the stud is good. The key position doesn't matter, that is (should be) always powered.

I went ahead and bought a premium remanufactured alternator today, I guess the salvage yard one I put on could have been bad too.

neoncrazy101 · Post by **neoncrazy101** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:19 pm

occasional demons wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:42 am Red and black wires probably are not for the battery sensor. I also doubt it is a left over for a hood light. That was only a 2000 model year thing, and even my '01 does not have a factory connector. I had to fab that part up.

They kept the wire colors very consistent. The wiring schematic shows Pink/Yellow, and Brown/Yellow, being this was a 1 or two model year thing, I don't see them mixing it up a whole lot. They wouldn't make two separate engine bay harnesses, being as cheap as they were.

My guess is if you cannot find a connector with those wire colors, your car did not come with the battery sensor. And it need not touch the battery.

Neoncrazy, if you can post up a pic of the battery sensor pin out, or the end of the connector, it may be obvious the red and black wired connector isn't the right connector. The one attached to that battery sensor doesn't look too close to the one Grey_2004_Neon posted.

I agree it wouldn't make sense for the colors to be different at all. But it is odd that it comes out of the same area as mine and about the same length...

Here's my connector

Grey_2004_Neon · Post by **Grey_2004_Neon** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:32 pm

I plugged the battery temp sensor I bought today, into the plug I posted the photo of and it fit perfectly, so should I go ahead and plug it in, or try it with the reman alternator?

Post by **NickKo** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:53 am

Grey_2004_Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:32 pm I plugged the battery temp sensor I bought today, into the plug I posted the photo of and it fit perfectly, so should I go ahead and plug it in, or try it with the reman alternator?

You may as well try out the sensor, and see if it makes a difference.

- Nick

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