Another option for lca bushing

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Another option for lca bushing

Post by a23dranger » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:19 pm

Saw this posted on fb from a fellow neon member Greg. Moog has come out with a pretty neat lca bushing for neon and pt cruisers. Around 20 bucks and Press in like stock. Going to try a set out on my 01acr and 95 nyg. If this is old news or posted before please disregard. Been a while since I've posted up on here.

http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/moog/w ... _Sheet.pdf


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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by trojmn » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:39 pm

the innards ball and socket look like the Curry johnny Joint i used on the blue car. This would be much easier. and no cutting up ball joint boots to keep the water out. Still technically not legal for "stock" classes. The real test is how well they locate the arm vertically.
Last edited by trojmn on Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:02 pm

1G as well ? could totally use that - urethane just dont last very long.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by a23dranger » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:10 pm

Yup available for 1gn, 2gn and pt along with others
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Beater Status » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:20 pm

Omfg I love Moog!

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by trojmn » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:47 pm

Vitor wrote:1G as well ? could totally use that - urethane just dont last very long.
yup its all in the design. queue dead horse that is prothane v ES 2gn v pro vertical bushing argument. one smashes, one articulates. provided the latter is installed correctly ;-).

I'm super jelly of the moog's proper boot, i wonder if the innards are rubber or urethane? $32 at the local parts store is about 1/2 the total project cost of the JJ IIRC not counting time! My JJ popped a retaining washer sometime over the summer. It was on the side that i was less sure about the BJ boot sealing so I suspect i rusted the snapring or something like it but its still locating the arm properly. even so, not terrible for 2.5yrs, autox, dd commuter ~75K+ miles.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by ACR MAN » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:52 pm

Now you guys know what my dining room table looks like.

The cut-away joint in this MOOG video appears to have a plastic insert around the ball. They say that the sealing boots on the joint are polyurethane, but they don't make any claims about poly inside the joint itself. I have a pair of these which will go into my SRT-4 once I get it running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-FthbeJ ... fkuNHRJ6GE
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by a23dranger » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:42 am

Haha yeah hope you don't mind me sharing it Greg
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by mopar[maniac] » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:27 pm

Thats awsome, Its pretty much like a spherical bushing. Looks like it would not allow any forward or backward movement witch would be good for drag racing.Im for sure gonna try those out. I just wonder how long they would last with 1.60ft's pretty often. But still i would rather replace those ever so often then worrying about control arm flex with poly bushings.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by ACR_Manny » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:03 pm

Hmm nice design and decent price. If I hadn't of done my bushings last summer I would be trying these.

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:31 am

All i need now is offset ball joint!
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:31 am

Where did you buy yours?

As of today:

RockAuto ([email protected] $67 shipped w coupon)
Advanced Auto Parts ([email protected] $62 shipped w coupon)
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by ACR MAN » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:44 pm

I bought my 2gn/SRT-4/PT bushings from RockAuto. I had to buy other parts anyway, so the shipping cost per piece was pretty low. I just submitted an entry to the Chumpcar 6-hour race this March at Laguna Seca, so I guess I should be thinking about putting a set in the 1st gen racecar. Don't forget: the 1st gen neon takes a different part number than the 2nd gen.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by OCNeonJohn » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:33 am

advance won't even let me place and order for ship to home 0 qty available, weird, rockauto it is
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by NickKo » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:56 pm

a23dranger wrote:Yup available for 1gn, 2gn and pt along with others
Awesome. :cool:

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Hell, that could be my own dining/k!tchen table..... Or the table of any of us here on 'The.Org.' !! :grin:

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by 98Sport5mt » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:07 pm

Does Moog make a Problem Solver premade Lower Control Arm? New ball joint, problem solver bushing(s) already installed? Am I to assume the problem solver bushing is just for the vertical bushing replacement? If so I guess I could go with prothane or a basic moog horizontal bushing.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by buxacr » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:14 am

98Sport5mt wrote:Does Moog make a Problem Solver premade Lower Control Arm? New ball joint, problem solver bushing(s) already installed? Am I to assume the problem solver bushing is just for the vertical bushing replacement? If so I guess I could go with prothane or a basic moog horizontal bushing.
Probably how I will do mine^^^ :good:

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:09 am

You really have to grease the PU joints every year, or water n dirt get between sleeve and bushing and just destroy them. They can't run dry.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:38 am

Looks like those LCA were removed from the market - no one is stocking 1G version anymore.

Rockauto dropped them, Advanced Auto is cancelling orders that include them.

Oh well.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by badmannersgod » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:50 pm

Just tried to place an order on Rockauto for them, theres only 28 total in stock.
Want to Buy Thread: http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=389525

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:13 am

Indeed, 1G neon Part No. K200791 $24.99 at rockauto right now.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by mluckey » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:58 am

I got two from Rock Auto. They were delivered on Tuesday.

I tried to order from Oreilly auto parts and they said there was ONE in the USA that they could get.

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:14 am

Mine got shipped too, after initial order being cancelled.

Advanced auto $50 off $125 coupon ftw!
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by mluckey » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:06 pm

I'm really psyched about these. I hope to be back on the road sometime in March. Before then I plan to order a few more sets of these in-case Moog discontinues.

I figure that PU front bushings plus these new-style Moog vertical joints that all that's left to fix the arm itself... for now.

Now I just need to figure out how to fix scrub-radius (plan to clean and put the Shadow hubs back on) and new bump-steer issues :ireful: Sure...It LOOKS 100 times cooler lowered with the 16 x 7 wheels and 224/45 tires, but the car HANDLED better with the 15 x 7 ET35 and 205/50-15 tires at standard ride height.

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by badmannersgod » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:42 pm

I placed an order today with my local autoparts. 20$each for 1st gen and 27$ each for 2gn. Only had 2 in stock for 1st gen and 4 in stock for 2gn.

He said he can re-order.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by TimACRcoupe » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:26 pm

I just installed a set on my car. We'll see how they hold up to autocross use.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:52 pm

They're here !
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:52 am

Sure, but car is in storage right now and its in mid 20's 8F for forseeable future :) 1st autox on March 22.. gonna be cold day i bet!

Control arms already have PU bushing, so just matter of pressing in new bushing. I'll see if I can get it done on bench vise, if not, have to ask some favors.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by TimACRcoupe » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:23 am

They are tight. I doubt you can do it on a bench vice.

They weren't the easiest thing to install with a powered hydraulic press...
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by buxacr » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:53 am

MOOG K200791 ebay $27 & change/free shipping :good:

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Beater Status » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:56 am

You guys in the States are so fortuneate to have such cheap prices on everything; here in Canaduh everything is twice the price. Forget about ordering anything across the border, shipping and customs will eat your wallet in front of your children.



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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by badmannersgod » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:44 am

I've always installed the older model with a hammer and the sleeve of the old bushing, works fine.

I just did my first set of the new bushings, there quite a bit harder, had to make a special adapter to fit my balljoint remover/installer and used that. worked fine.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by fixit » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:24 am

i did a set of the moog spherical yesterday -- wish i had a press, tough install with ball joint press.

significant improvement over my prothanes that wore out after 75k

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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Purpose » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:54 am

O'rly.....
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by ACR MAN » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:47 pm

By design, there is a wear problem with the bushing at the rear end of the front lower control arm. The sharp edges inside the bore in the control arm chew up the urethane. The other issue is the binding that the bushing adds because you are trying to push a steel tube across a solid urethane bushing...
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by NickKo » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:57 pm

ACR MAN wrote:By design, there is a wear problem with the bushing at the rear end of the front lower control arm. The sharp edges inside the bore in the control arm chew up the urethane. The other issue is the binding that the bushing adds because you are trying to push a steel tube across a solid urethane bushing...
Interesting.
Thanks for pointing that out, Greg !!

So - Based upon this finding, would adding a bit of 'chamfer' to the edge of the bore, help alleviate this issue ??


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 52mm TB; Maddog STS
-1999 4-dr DOHC ATX= went to car heaven (junkyard)
-2000 Ply.LX with MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; R/T muffler + Header
-2001 Ddg.ES ATX = UDP, Magnum Header; + Syked PCM 'pending'

-1971 Ply.Scamp SL6cyl. ('Horse Traded' away)
-1968 Chry.300 w/440 V8 (sold)
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:14 pm

Issue with that bushing is lack of lubrication.

2 pics below , one of horizontal bushign after few years of racing abuse, grease was squeeze out, dirt and water took over and pulverized the bushing, corrosion eating away at steel, creating grit to mill urethaneeven further. No fix, had to be replaced.

Other is vertical bushing after about 2 season of autox.
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Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by Vitor » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:54 am

Yes, but it's not permanent.
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98 R/T Project Log: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=289255&start=600 (Retired)
DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE

HaK
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:54 am

Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by HaK » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:57 pm

2Dr I don't belive the bushing you pictured is the bushing in question. He was referring to the rear most bushing in the front control arms, which takes quite a beating. I had them in my SRT4 and I think just from lifting the vehicle so many times they were already being 'cut' by the sharp edge of the control arm flexing up and down, with maybe 5000 miles on them. I question the added difficulty of an axle replacement with these MOOG units. I also question the durability, MOOG is a dirty word in the repair shop I work at. More warranty'd joints than I care to think about before we stopped using them. They are by far at the bottom of the quality game against spicer or even oem joints. Even still I may order a set up for mine, can anyone chime in who has installed them about the harshness of the ride over poly? I imagine a virtually solid joint isn't going to soak up the bumps as well, but probably transmit greater steering feedback.

TimACRcoupe
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 8:59 am
Location: Huntsville, North Alabama

Re: Another option for lca bushing

Post by TimACRcoupe » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:18 am

I threw my rears away but they were torn and deformed when I took them out. That was over 100K miles of use though. I think they were Energy.

I am guessing they will make axle swaps easier since you are not fighting the rear bushing. The control arms move more freely without the rear bushing trying to compress itself. You are just working against the front bar to push the arms down. So far I have no complaints on the ride quality. My car isn't a great example though with filled / semi solid motor mounts and 500# springs. I like steering feedback :)
1997 Neon ACR #42 FSP (autocross weapon)
2013 Mazda 3i Sedan (daily)
2014 WRX Sedan (wife's ride)
TVRSCCA / Twickenham Auto Club
http://www.teamtac.org

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