SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

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SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by neonlifer » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:50 am

Hey guys is there a difference between the front knuckles of the nsrt4 and the pt gt and/or pt cruiser?

If so, what....?


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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:04 pm

Yes, the Tie rod hole is in one of 3 different positions. The Tie rod hole varies in its distance from the hub face. I believe 2002 and earlier had the shorter bearing as well.

I haven't ID all the different options(trans,engine, ect) that might dictate which PT gets which knuckle.

I do know that all Srts only use one style of knuckle and its appears to be the 'intermediate' or middle position shared with one version of the PT knuckle.

NOTE: For an Srt, it is a significant improvement to handling to use the Knuckle version that places the tie rod hole nearest the cars centerline. In other words, the one that spaces the hole furthest from the hub face.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by mluckey » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:18 pm

Merry Christmas!

For what it's worth, the 2003 -2007 Turbo PT use the SRT-4 Knuckles. Other than the turbo knuckles, there are three other styles. The caveat is that some are labeled as "AR" which translates to "As Required". Meaning that a dealer could use them interchangeably. There was a bearing changeover sometime in early 2002, so early PT's I'm not too sure about.

05272478AA - 1 - C ECC, EDZ, EJD, DD5 [ECC][EDZ][EDJ], Right ---- 2007 Part =05272478AB
05272479AA - 1- C ECC, EDZ, EJD, DD5 [ECC][EDZ][EDJ], Left ------ 2007 Part =05272479AB
05272486AA - 1 - ECC, EDJ, EDZ, DDD, DGL [ECC][EDZ][EDJ], Right -- 2007 Part = 05272486AB
- 1 - Z ECC DD5 [ECC], Right
05272487AA - 1 - ECC, EDJ, EDZ, DDD, DGL [ECC][EDZ][EDJ], Left ----- 2007 Part = 052724876AB
1 - Z ECC DD5 [ECC], Left
05272492AA – 1 - EDV DDD, DGL [EDV], Right ----- 2007 Part = 05272492AB (These are the SRT-4 Units)
05272493AA - 1 - EDV DDD, DGL [EDV], Left ---- 2007 Part = 05272493AB

PT CRUISER (PT) SERIES LINE BODY ENGINE TRANSMISSION:

H = HIGHLINE(Classic)
P = PREMIUM(Touring)
S = SPORT(Limited)
C = CHRYSLER
44 = 4 Door
27 = 2Dr
Z = RHD

ECC = Engine - 2.0L 4 Cyl DOHC 16V SMPI
EDJ = Engine - 2.2L 4 Cyl Turbo Diesel
EDV = Engine - 2.4L 4 Cyl DOHC 16V Turbo
EDZ = Engine - 2.4L 4 Cyl DOHC 16V SMPI
EJD = Engine - 1.6L 4 Cyl SOHC 16V SMPI
DD5 = Transmission - 5-Speed Manual
DDD = Transmission - 5-Speed HD Manual
DGL = Transmission - 4-Spd. Automatic,41TE

Mark
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18 PSI to redline
So much to break, so little time....

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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:22 am

mluckey wrote:Other than the turbo knuckles, there are three other styles.

05272478AA,05272479AA

05272486AA,05272487AA

05272492AA,05272493AA


What is the 4th style?
I'm only seeing 3.
Last edited by duster360 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:28 am

It depended on wheel/tire combo - kinda silly, mainly to keep tire off the frame rail at full lock.

SRT-4/PT bearings are about $33, 2003+ neon bearing of same size about $45.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:47 am

Vitor wrote:It depended on wheel/tire combo - kinda silly, mainly to keep tire off the frame rail at full lock.

Funny,,,I run 235/40-17 Nitto NT-01s on 17x8(35mm offset) Enkie RPF-1 on my SRT-4 and even with the front lowered a bit, I've never had an issue with tire rub a full lock.
Even when I switched to the better performing PT knuckles[5272492AB, 493AB] with their increased Ackermann angle and smaller turning radius,,,still no issue with tire rub at full lock but I did raise the ride height ~.5".

imo the SRT engineers knew exactly what they were doing when they opted for copious amounts of inherently Stable understeer produced by the knuckles they chose,,given the target demographic. I say this because most non Srt Neons seem to have a similar amount Ackermann and sharp turning as the PT knuckle's 'improved version'. Its as if they got the first test mules build and thought "holy crap, we're going to kill a bunch of dumb young kids if we don't tame this car down."
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:04 am

mluckey wrote: 05272492AA – 1 - EDV DDD, DGL [EDV], Right ----- 2007 Part = 05272492AB (These are the SRT-4 Units)
05272493AA - 1 - EDV DDD, DGL [EDV], Left ---- 2007 Part = 05272493AB
Mark can you please double check the Srt-4 part number?

In a previous post you'd mentioned that the 486AB/487AB were the Srt-4 knuckles.
05272486AB EDV DDD [DDD], Right (These are the HO Turbo knuckles with Getrag G288 or 41TE auto) This is SRT-4 since I show the only difference to be an "A" in the part #
05272487AB EDV DDD [DDD], Left
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:33 am

Makes me want to build a mix-n-match setup :)

PT knuckles, 5x114.3 hubs + set of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Comp-Gloss-Bl ... B002UXQ60S
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:06 am

Vitor wrote:5x114.3 hubs
What hubs exactly?

Some Srt-4 roadrace guys are looking for some hubs with a 4.5" bc for more wheel options
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:35 am

I think this would work:

Part Number: 930-501
( 2008-03 Forester, 2007-93 Impreza, 1996-95 Impreza Outback, 2004-90 Legacy, 1998-95 Legacy Outback, 2004-02 Outback)

Image

Bore=1.6535"
Width=1.4961
Outer Diameter=2.8346",

SRT-4 hub for comparison

Image

SRt-4 bearing info:

Inside diameter=1.6535"

Width=1.535"
Outside diameter=2.9920"

Width of bearing is off slightly - just need to check outer tripod size.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:56 pm

:negative: nope the Subaru hubs are 27 spline
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:21 pm

Really need someone at auto parts store to go thru parts boxes ;)

Camry is 26 spline but bore is different. Would need to go thru timken catalog and match OD of hub to OD of knuckle.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by mluckey » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:17 pm

duster360 wrote:
mluckey wrote: 05272492AA – 1 - EDV DDD, DGL [EDV], Right ----- 2007 Part = 05272492AB (These are the SRT-4 Units)
05272493AA - 1 - EDV DDD, DGL [EDV], Left ---- 2007 Part = 05272493AB
Mark can you please double check the Srt-4 part number?

In a previous post you'd mentioned that the 486AB/487AB were the Srt-4 knuckles.
05272486AB EDV DDD [DDD], Right (These are the HO Turbo knuckles with Getrag G288 or 41TE auto) This is SRT-4 since I show the only difference to be an "A" in the part #
05272487AB EDV DDD [DDD], Left
With the SRT-4 it's the EDV DDR combo that gets you the SRT knuckle (EDV = HO turbo) 2005 PL Body = 05272486AB and 05272487AB
WIth the 2007 PT body it's the EDV DDD combo to be CERTAIN (the Getrag is the DDD) 2007 PT body = 05272487AB and 05272486AB
With the Early 2003 PT it's the 492AA and 493AA knuckles from above to get the SRT style units.

There seems to be some sort of running change to the PT early knuckles. It's likely that the non turbo and low pressure turbo combination have used several knuckles.

Mark
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18 PSI to redline
So much to break, so little time....

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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by duster360 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:55 am

FTR I just checked the Knuckles off my 2004 Srt-4 and they're casted with 487AB and 486AB
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by mluckey » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:35 pm

duster360 wrote:FTR I just checked the Knuckles off my 2004 Srt-4 and they're casted with 487AB and 486AB
Yup, that's what the part should be for a Neon application. I Don't know the difference between the PT large hub and the Neon (SRT-4) large hub except the part number. They both LOOK the same, and bothe have the larger hub.

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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Thu May 22, 2014 10:33 am

knuckle_photo.JPG
Found this in my archives :) Good refers to position of hole so that you don't have to cut the rid rod end or swap to shorter inner tie rod.
The "bad" more closely resembles Turbo PT tie rod location.
Turbo_vs_MTX.gif
This is from a turbo PT - not sure which variety, but it was turbo PT.
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Last edited by Vitor on Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by srt4eh » Thu May 22, 2014 11:50 am

Thanks for that pic Vitor - very helpful. Now if only I could find these parts locally. I guess I'll just stick with the parts I have
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Thu May 22, 2014 1:00 pm

Would be interesting to lay out different tie rod hole locations for different knuckles - i have two, i can estimate others. Only need dimension similar to what is shown: 5.25 and 1.735".
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Madisonr34 » Mon May 25, 2015 4:59 pm

So if i wanted to get exact replacement knuckles for my 05 srt4... which yeahr pt cruiser should i look for?

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SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by srt4eh » Tue May 26, 2015 11:06 pm

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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by jimbo in MI » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:05 pm

Picture from post above to make permanent.
5395994dbcb062058a7e361fad895219.jpg
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by jimbo in MI » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:18 pm

Vitors web page is down right now, I found this on archive.org.
1. Left & Right 2000+ PT cruiser knuckles. Knuckes from a manual transmission, steel wheel combo is desired as they have tie rod holes in most desirable location. As you move up in wheel size and go to turbo, the tie rod location is further out, increasing the turning circle to 41 feet, whereas the MTX/Steel wheel is in 36 foot range.

If you can only find turbo knuckles, then you will need to have a machine shop relocate both tie rod holes as your neon tie rods will bottom out. This is no small feat as the holes are tapered and the angle is quite obscure and sourcing tooling for it can take a while.
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Turbo_Knuckle_Dimensions.gif
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by bloodyzero11 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:23 pm

I have a wheel bearing going bad in my srt. I have a donor sxt available. so I suppose based on what I'm reading I will not be able to use the knuckle and hub assembly from the sxt as a temporary fix? I know it's stupid but I don't have a press available to press out the old bearing and press in the new bearing and I would rather not not pay someone to press the bearing for me especially because I'm strapped for cash right now.

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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by jimbo in MI » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:36 pm

Not a good idea...

Brakes are different between the two. The normal neon rotors are smaller and the calipers have different bore sizes between the two. That would make for some very quirky braking to say the least.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by alljneon » Thu May 18, 2017 6:05 pm

I wonder what is your experience with the PT knuckle with more ackerman at road track.

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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Fri May 19, 2017 5:25 am

I recently changed to this tie rod location and I am enjoying improved turn-in and reduced understeer.

As cast, 488 and 489AB
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by JeremyJ » Fri May 19, 2017 10:14 am

The tie rod mount location looks more like the turbo knuckles. How's your turning radius?
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Fri May 19, 2017 2:52 pm

No idea.. but it can't be any worse than before, tire hits framerail just as well.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by ShaZam508 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:30 pm

Old thread but do you recall if it reduced or improved your turning radius Vitor? Id like to go with those knuckles with the tie rod location furthest back but do not want to increase my turning circle since its bad enough with my SRT knuckles and manual rack.
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Re: SRT 4 vs PTGT front knuckles

Post by Vitor » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:04 pm

Turning circle is pointless metric.

Turn-IN is metric you want as it IMPROVEs handling - makes car change direction, not understeer.

Example: Focus ST has terrible turning circle, yet has one of the best FWD turn-in i have ever experienced.
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