Runner Length Tuning...ITB style

User avatar
Sick95SOHC
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:38 am
Location: Nashua, NH

Runner Length Tuning...ITB style

Post by Sick95SOHC » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:08 am

Image

Image

Image

Image

you guessed it, i had to find out what did the hp god would have to say to me as i ran through this stack of runner extensions on the dyno. poor little motor didnt know what was coming.


Here's the spread. Spikes in the ignition systems occassionally translate into spikes on the dyno graph so ingore any sudden power and torque spikes.

Image

RunFile_23: Base Run. No Extensions. Distance from valve to end of
itb manifold = 11.5"
RunFile_16: 5" extension
RunFile_18: 7" extension
RunFile_19: 8" extension
RunFile_20: 9" extension
RunFile_21: 10" extension
RunFile_22: 12" extension

Run Conditions:
Average Air Temp: 101.6 °F
Humidity: 27 %
Altitude: 100 feet
Absolute Pressure: 29.8 in-Hg

The motor:
Custom 4 x 52mm ITB
Ported and polished 1st gen head. Shaved 0.050"
Crane #14
Magnum Valve Springs
Fast Fabs Version 2 Long Tube Header
Stock SOHC bottom end

Megasquirt on Fuel and Spark: 100 octane unleaded, 30 degrees spark advance across the board.

Sidenote: Right at the end i added 4 gallons of 110 octane leaded gas to the 1 gallon of 100 octane that was left in the tank and progressively took the spark advance all the way up to 38 degrees. No power gain after 32 degrees advance.


Ok let's take a more focused look at what happened.

Image

Base Run (Red) vs 5" extension (Blue).
Up to this point no loss in power but look at the boost in the midrange. 11 hp and 11 ft/lbs at 4800 rpms.


Image

Now throw in the 6 inch extension (Green), another ignition glitch. still no loss in peak power, but the motor gained an incredible 16hp and 18 ft/lbs at 4800 rpms.



Image

Here's the base run (Red) vs 7 inch extension (Blue).You've learned to ignore the glitches. Peak torque for the blue outside the glitch is 143.59 ft/lbs. Now this is where things get interesting. Another max gain of 16hp and 18 ft/lbs, but look at how it goes on for almost 500 rpms from 4500 to 5000 where

everybody else is experiencing that dreaded torque dip. Here's it's virtually reversed. Peak power stays the same but is now reached 300 rpms sooner at 6800 rpms. This would normally be a good thing but i'm not too psyched about how sharply power falls off after peak. At this point i think the boost through the entire rpm range before 7000rpms more than makes up for the loss of power after.
There was no change when i stepped up to the 8 inch extension and very minor change when i wentup to 9 inches except the 18 ft/lb boost started at 4200 rpms but still went up to 5000rpms, so in the next graph i'll just throw in the run with 10 inch extensions since it was identical to the 9 inch extensions.


Image

I've just thrown in the 10 inch extensions (Green) into the graph above. Midrange just won't stop hemorrhaging. bye bye torque dip forever. see how flat the torque curve is getting. all at the expense of what, 5hp peak? if i was a little cooler out i think peak hp might have been in the low 170s.



Image

Here's the 12 inch extension (Brown) thrown in the mix. torque curve flatlined at 145lb/ft from 4300 to 5700 rpms. With a 10hp loss up top and i think this is around the point where drag racers would part ways with circle track/road course guys. Drag racers wouldnt want to sacrifice much more power but circle track guys would love the torque coming out of turns.


So this is where the road ends. It was brutal, motor took such a beating. 2 hours, 27 runs, 22 miles on the dyno...in triple digit weather. There's a very nice middle range for deciding on runner length but space constraints under the hood make it hard to implement with ITBs, but i might have a solution for this so stay tuned for an update.
What the deuce!!!

I pity the fool that's running the wrong manifold! edumacate urself
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f ... t+%27em+up

User avatar
6(sic)6
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 2053
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:59 pm
Location: huntingdon, PA

Post by 6(sic)6 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:15 am

WOW!

Good post
Image
SuperCharged SOHC viewtopic.php?f=51&t=280798 FOR SALE going turbo

White sohc 96 expresso (scraped)
O3 stage 1 PT GT (traded in) : (

"He tasks me, and I shall have him"

Hex
Neon Mechanic
Posts: 6222
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:56 pm
Location: Middletown, OH

Post by Hex » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:42 am

I'd decide what size extension I wanted and get some velocity stacks in that size. That's almost sure to give you yet another bump in hp/tq, especially when you're at speed, meaning you'll make more on the track than the dyno.

Calum
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:12 pm
Location: Halifax

Post by Calum » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:52 am

6(sic)6 wrote:WOW!

Good post
x2

Now it's time to get a bigger cam and see if you can't gain back some of that top end.

dajokerx2
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:01 am
Location: Hudson, New Hampshire

Post by dajokerx2 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:10 am

Damn good post!!
Later
Jake
95 nitro yellow green sport sedan SRT swap
05 Gt cruiser mtx convertible
09 BMW 135i convertible m edition

Lee
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 997
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Windsor, ON

Post by Lee » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:36 am

Very good post.
1998 2.0L DOHC Sedan: #14 ST-U road racer
1995 NYG ACR Coupe: 1 of 98

User avatar
JeffB#2
n00b
Posts: 7420
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 5:57 am
Location: western WI

Post by JeffB#2 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:15 am

Sticky.

It's nice to see someone actually take the time to experiment and do it right. "Butt dyno" would have never shown anything, this is the best way to prove or disprove what works and what doesn't. Nice job, excellent effort.

I'd consider bumping to the 007 cam. Lift of the 14 but more duration. I'd use the 007 over the 005.
12.31 @ 111.51 - 235WHP/186WTQ
all-motor 2.4 swap

http://www.boogerbushings.com



'95 Ply ACR sedan NYG
'96 Ply Coupe Lapis-junked
'01 ACR Stone White
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.4 SOHC ATX
'95 Ply Sport Coupe NYG 2.0 SOHC MTX
'98 Ram Forest Green
'78 Aspen Super Coupe
'78 Volare station wagon
'03 GT Cruiser
'68 Chevelle SS 396 4-speed
'15 Dart SXT 2.4 no-swap
'16 Plum Crazy Hellcat Charger [email protected]

fusion210
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 3498
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 10:15 am
Location: Charlotte NC

Post by fusion210 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:37 pm

Cool testing!

Do you have the measurement for how long it is from the cylinder head to the opening of the throttle body?

User avatar
ACRucrazy
Site Supporter
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:16 am
Location: The Garage

Post by ACRucrazy » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:26 pm

Love the post!
I will be doing a similar test next month... :)

Calum
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 505
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:12 pm
Location: Halifax

Post by Calum » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:30 pm

RunFile_23: Base Run. No Extensions. Distance from valve to end of
itb manifold = 11.5"

User avatar
ScottStaypuff
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 4:03 pm
Location: Ohio

Post by ScottStaypuff » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:56 pm

That's cool, I wonder what air horns would get you...
Project Log:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=279588

Dustinsuglyhighline
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 3273
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:19 pm
Location: Baraboo, Wisconsin

Re: Runner Length Tuning...ITB style

Post by Dustinsuglyhighline » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:10 pm

First, this is an awesome post!
Sick95SOHC wrote:No power gain after 32 degrees advance.
Interesting; I've watched a Stock DOHC computer go a rather large amount higher than that on the DRB III. 93 Octane

I suppose that's progressive over the RPMs though. It surely wasn't that high near idle.
2011 Wrangler Rubicon 3" lift

Image

User avatar
NickKo
Global Moderator
Posts: 10156
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:53 pm
Location: -1 1/2hr. East of Belvidere,IL.-

Post by NickKo » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:26 pm

6(sic)6 wrote:WOW!

Good post
dajokerx2 wrote:Damn good post!!
Later
Jake
Lee wrote:Very good post.
x4 or x5 :clap2:

JeffB#2 wrote: It's nice to see someone actually take the time to experiment and do it right. "Butt dyno" would have never shown anything, this is the best way to prove or disprove what works and what doesn't. Nice job, excellent effort.
-Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 52mm TB; Maddog STS
-1999 4-dr DOHC ATX= went to car heaven (junkyard)
-2000 Ply.LX with MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; R/T muffler + Header
-2001 Ddg.ES ATX = UDP, Magnum Header; + Syked PCM 'pending'

-1971 Ply.Scamp SL6cyl. ('Horse Traded' away)
-1968 Chry.300 w/440 V8 (sold)
"MoPar or No Car"

User avatar
all_motor_mike
Sponsoring Dealer
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:58 pm
Location: Surprise, AZ

Post by all_motor_mike » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:44 pm

:P nice arthur!
follow me on instagram #AMMFAB
PM me for the highest quality intake manifolds, head porting and any other fabrication needs

intake pricing and options........ viewtopic.php?f=107&t=361522
head pricing and options........ viewtopic.php?f=107&t=361527

fusion210
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 3498
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 10:15 am
Location: Charlotte NC

Post by fusion210 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:36 pm

Calum wrote:RunFile_23: Base Run. No Extensions. Distance from valve to end of
itb manifold = 11.5"
Close enough to what I was asking I s'pose. 8)

User avatar
UptownSport
Neon Mechanic
Posts: 6587
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:04 pm
Location: 55403 MNNeons.net

Re: Runner Length Tuning...ITB style

Post by UptownSport » Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:41 pm

Dustinsuglyhighline wrote:First, this is an awesome post!
Sick95SOHC wrote:No power gain after 32 degrees advance.
Interesting; I've watched a Stock DOHC computer go a rather large amount higher than that on the DRB III. 93 Octane

I suppose that's progressive over the RPMs though. It surely wasn't that high near idle.
Ditto on Awesome post!!!!

OE style (PCM's) will go lots higher, but only at high vacuum.
WOT my AFx/r doesn't go into the 30's (sample every 5 sec,
so it doesn't record everything) at WOT

Small combustion chambers don't nead as much timing lead
as old wedges did
Minnesota Neons
Home of the 13.8 How-To
°
My self worth is not the size of my thighs
My self worth is not the size of my thighs
My self worth is not the size of my thighs

User avatar
TWK
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1894
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 11:21 pm
Location: arvada, colorado

Post by TWK » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:15 pm

Wow nice post and good info


Have you driven it on the streets? How does it sound and feel?

You have a video of it?
BOOSTSOUL= JOKE

adavis159
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1092
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: Minneapolis MN

Post by adavis159 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:24 pm

why did you stop at 12 inches?
96 neon SOHC MTX, DD, pizza delivery
Current mods: prothane motor mount inserts, booger shift bushings, ATX tb, UDP, Depo Projectors, rear strut bar
Future mods: rear sway bar
I woke up one morning in November and I realized I love you, It's not your headlights in front, your tailpipe, or the skylight above you. It's the way you cling to the road when the wind tries to shove you, I'd never go riding away and come back home without you

User avatar
superD
Neon Mechanic
Posts: 7724
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:52 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ it's quite hot outside. BUMMER!

Post by superD » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:43 pm

adavis159 wrote:why did you stop at 12 inches?
because, then it would just be for fun. where would you put 12+ inch runners on a ITB setup?
CHECK BACK IN 2027 FOR MY NEXT EXCITING UPDATE
2018 Accord Sport 2.0T. Drives itself so I can claim I don't drive a Honda.
MAKING LEFT AND RIGHT TURNS
jspata17 wrote:im not that dumb. i cant tell the difference between a inch pound and foot pound torque wrench.

User avatar
chromebeast
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:18 pm
Location: Plymouth, WI

Post by chromebeast » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:46 am

you should have done it with a stock intake as well to show how much you get from an ITB setup
Image
1stgentwofour wrote:Honda owners are the Jerry Riggers, we are the penny pinching jews of the automotive world :rofl:
If you are going to start a project log... START IT WITH PICTURES

j1v
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Bulgaria

Post by j1v » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:07 pm

I haven't put my car on the dyno yet, but have done tests with two different lengths, and of course I preffered the one with the long runners exactly for this reason. With the extensions, at mid rpms the car needed about 10% more fuel to accomplish 13:1 AFR, compared without the extensions (velocity stacks attached directly to the throttle bodies)

Image
Race car: 169 whp DOHC, 3.95 gearbox, crane #18s, springs,ti. retainers and adj. wheels, Eagles, JE 12.5:1, KMS standalone, P&P Head, Long Tube Header, UDP, ITB, Exhaust, Strutbars, K-sport Coilovers, HP pads, OBX torsen diff, Prothane bushings, Fidanza, Clutchmasters stage 3, rollcage.

Project log: http://www.performance-bg.org/forum/vie ... 15&start=0

j1v
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Bulgaria

Post by j1v » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:05 am

Sick95SOHC I'm curious are the tests on the dyno without velocity stacks ?
Race car: 169 whp DOHC, 3.95 gearbox, crane #18s, springs,ti. retainers and adj. wheels, Eagles, JE 12.5:1, KMS standalone, P&P Head, Long Tube Header, UDP, ITB, Exhaust, Strutbars, K-sport Coilovers, HP pads, OBX torsen diff, Prothane bushings, Fidanza, Clutchmasters stage 3, rollcage.

Project log: http://www.performance-bg.org/forum/vie ... 15&start=0

rageparts
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 7:20 pm

Post by rageparts » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:25 am

I would say, that you would see about 4% or 8-10 hp and tq gains with air horns on all lengths.

User avatar
ACRucrazy
Site Supporter
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:16 am
Location: The Garage

Post by ACRucrazy » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:49 am

rageparts wrote:I would say, that you would see about 4% or 8-10 hp and tq gains with air horns on all lengths.
:up:

super8neon
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Princeton, Texas

Post by super8neon » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:50 pm

What about building a plenum box for the end of the throttle bodies?
The man... the myth... the legend has returned.

User avatar
Vitor
Site Supporter
Posts: 10515
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 7:42 am
Location: NJ - just outside NYC

Post by Vitor » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:14 pm

No need to build, TWM induction has them off the shelf.
Racing Neons since 1998! Over 20 years of on and off track experience. Be Smart, Take it to the Track.

http://www.neongoodies.com Monster Airdam, EGR Kits, Swaybar Brackets, DePowered Race Steering Racks...

98 R/T Project Log: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=289255&start=600 (Retired)
DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE

User avatar
all_motor_mike
Sponsoring Dealer
Posts: 2865
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:58 pm
Location: Surprise, AZ

Post by all_motor_mike » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:22 pm

super8neon wrote:What about building a plenum box for the end of the throttle bodies?
why would u want to do that? i could see why if u our cars ran a MAF sensor but they dont, so like vitor said there is really no need.
follow me on instagram #AMMFAB
PM me for the highest quality intake manifolds, head porting and any other fabrication needs

intake pricing and options........ viewtopic.php?f=107&t=361522
head pricing and options........ viewtopic.php?f=107&t=361527

j1v
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Bulgaria

Post by j1v » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:09 pm

super8neon wrote:What about building a plenum box for the end of the throttle bodies?
that is what I am planning next, but the runners will still be with velocity stacks on the end, inside the plenum

This is what I just ordered:

http://www.velocity-of-sound.com/commer ... nt_id=2107

Image
Race car: 169 whp DOHC, 3.95 gearbox, crane #18s, springs,ti. retainers and adj. wheels, Eagles, JE 12.5:1, KMS standalone, P&P Head, Long Tube Header, UDP, ITB, Exhaust, Strutbars, K-sport Coilovers, HP pads, OBX torsen diff, Prothane bushings, Fidanza, Clutchmasters stage 3, rollcage.

Project log: http://www.performance-bg.org/forum/vie ... 15&start=0

j1v
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Bulgaria

Post by j1v » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:49 pm

all_motor_mike wrote:
super8neon wrote:What about building a plenum box for the end of the throttle bodies?
why would u want to do that? i could see why if u our cars ran a MAF sensor but they dont, so like vitor said there is really no need.
just in case you need to drive your car regulary and you prefer to put an air filter :lol:
Race car: 169 whp DOHC, 3.95 gearbox, crane #18s, springs,ti. retainers and adj. wheels, Eagles, JE 12.5:1, KMS standalone, P&P Head, Long Tube Header, UDP, ITB, Exhaust, Strutbars, K-sport Coilovers, HP pads, OBX torsen diff, Prothane bushings, Fidanza, Clutchmasters stage 3, rollcage.

Project log: http://www.performance-bg.org/forum/vie ... 15&start=0

User avatar
Vitor
Site Supporter
Posts: 10515
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 7:42 am
Location: NJ - just outside NYC

Post by Vitor » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:32 pm

See itb's

Image

See ITB's w/ air box:

Image

Airbox from twm induction. Inlet is 3"

V
Racing Neons since 1998! Over 20 years of on and off track experience. Be Smart, Take it to the Track.

http://www.neongoodies.com Monster Airdam, EGR Kits, Swaybar Brackets, DePowered Race Steering Racks...

98 R/T Project Log: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=289255&start=600 (Retired)
DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE

User avatar
6(sic)6
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 2053
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:59 pm
Location: huntingdon, PA

Post by 6(sic)6 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:40 pm

Ive seen your set-up before Vitor, very nice
Image
SuperCharged SOHC viewtopic.php?f=51&t=280798 FOR SALE going turbo

White sohc 96 expresso (scraped)
O3 stage 1 PT GT (traded in) : (

"He tasks me, and I shall have him"

j1v
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Bulgaria

Post by j1v » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:25 am

Yes, but these are pretty short runners ... I'll post pics of what I'm planning, as soon as I receive the velocity stacks
Race car: 169 whp DOHC, 3.95 gearbox, crane #18s, springs,ti. retainers and adj. wheels, Eagles, JE 12.5:1, KMS standalone, P&P Head, Long Tube Header, UDP, ITB, Exhaust, Strutbars, K-sport Coilovers, HP pads, OBX torsen diff, Prothane bushings, Fidanza, Clutchmasters stage 3, rollcage.

Project log: http://www.performance-bg.org/forum/vie ... 15&start=0

User avatar
Vitor
Site Supporter
Posts: 10515
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 7:42 am
Location: NJ - just outside NYC

Post by Vitor » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:24 am

Length of horns varies with what cams you have. The length I show works well for my cam profile, which hapen to be higher lift, short duration.

V
Racing Neons since 1998! Over 20 years of on and off track experience. Be Smart, Take it to the Track.

http://www.neongoodies.com Monster Airdam, EGR Kits, Swaybar Brackets, DePowered Race Steering Racks...

98 R/T Project Log: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=289255&start=600 (Retired)
DD: 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE

User avatar
chromebeast
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:18 pm
Location: Plymouth, WI

Post by chromebeast » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:24 am

i think that there should be a second run with these variables

Stock intake and stock TB
Stock intake and 60mm TB
Polished intake and stock TB
Polished intake and 60mm TB

Same with INDY and allmotormike's intakes

then move onto the ITB setup with the various lengths including nothing attatched

Of course you wouldnt need to redo the tests youve already done
Image
1stgentwofour wrote:Honda owners are the Jerry Riggers, we are the penny pinching jews of the automotive world :rofl:
If you are going to start a project log... START IT WITH PICTURES

User avatar
ACRucrazy
Site Supporter
Posts: 2344
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:16 am
Location: The Garage

Post by ACRucrazy » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:06 am

chromebeast wrote:i think that there should be a second run with these variables

Stock intake and stock TB
Stock intake and 60mm TB
Polished intake and stock TB
Polished intake and 60mm TB

Same with INDY and allmotormike's intakes

then move onto the ITB setup with the various lengths including nothing attatched

Of course you wouldnt need to redo the tests youve already done
Next month I am dynoing on the same day/car

Stock
Extude Hone
All motor mike
Black dog
(indy maybe)

With
49mm TB
52mm TB
57mm TB
60mm TB

And maybe something else.

User avatar
chromebeast
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:18 pm
Location: Plymouth, WI

Post by chromebeast » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:23 am

ACRucrazy wrote:
chromebeast wrote:i think that there should be a second run with these variables

Stock intake and stock TB
Stock intake and 60mm TB
Polished intake and stock TB
Polished intake and 60mm TB

Same with INDY and allmotormike's intakes

then move onto the ITB setup with the various lengths including nothing attatched

Of course you wouldnt need to redo the tests youve already done
Next month I am dynoing on the same day/car

Stock
Extude Hone
All motor mike
Black dog
(indy maybe)

With
49mm TB
52mm TB
57mm TB
60mm TB

And maybe something else.
cant wait
Image
1stgentwofour wrote:Honda owners are the Jerry Riggers, we are the penny pinching jews of the automotive world :rofl:
If you are going to start a project log... START IT WITH PICTURES

super8neon
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Princeton, Texas

Post by super8neon » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:05 am

all_motor_mike wrote:why would u want to do that? i could see why if u our cars ran a MAF sensor but they dont, so like vitor said there is really no need.
Vitor said there was no need to "build" an induction box... TWM has them available for purchase.


I've seen a lot of different induction boxes for motorcycles.
The minute you remove them and install individual Filters... you loose massive amounts of low end torque, but peak HP is up quite a bit.

You'd think that the same rule would apply to Neons.... ehhh?
The man... the myth... the legend has returned.

super8neon
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Princeton, Texas

Post by super8neon » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:07 am

ACRucrazy wrote:Next month I am dynoing on the same day/car

Stock
Extude Hone
All motor mike
Black dog
(indy maybe)

With
49mm TB
52mm TB
57mm TB
60mm TB

And maybe something else.

What are you trying to achieve?

There are going to be way too many combinations... seems like a huge waste of time and money.

Unless you are receiving some sort of "kick back" for your time and effort.
The man... the myth... the legend has returned.

User avatar
chromebeast
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1819
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:18 pm
Location: Plymouth, WI

Post by chromebeast » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:38 am

i just wanted a clear dyno result of what you get from what, ya know
Image
1stgentwofour wrote:Honda owners are the Jerry Riggers, we are the penny pinching jews of the automotive world :rofl:
If you are going to start a project log... START IT WITH PICTURES

super8neon
Neon Enthusiast
Posts: 1075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 8:00 am
Location: Princeton, Texas

Post by super8neon » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:38 am

chromebeast wrote:i just wanted a clear dyno result of what you get from what, ya know
Do you have a money tree???

The dynos that I know of charge a lot of money for an hours use.
You'll be pulling intake manifolds and refilling the coolant a whole bunch.
:roll:

It's a proven fact that the Neon doesn't need anymore airflow than a 55mm TB provides.
Unless you have a modified cylinder head.


While you're at it... test an NRGY, Blackdog, RageParts, and an Indy Cylinder head.

I want to know the best one.
:lol:
The man... the myth... the legend has returned.

Post Reply

Return to “Engine Performance Archives”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest